[geocentrism] Re: expelled

  • From: Jack Lewis <jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:49:16 +0100

Neville,
Isn't it obvious that answering 'to my satisfaction' goes without saying in any normal exchange of views between people? Who on earth would ask someone a question where a non-satisfying answer would be acceptable?

I accept that what you say below is what you believe. What I cannot understand is how you came to this belief. If you are simply invoking that bit of the despised 'black book' that you do accept; 'the truth will set you free'; this is a text that has no context. Of itself and on its own has no value at all.

We are so far apart in our respective beliefs that it is pointless in trying to put them to each-other. I only responded to this thread because of your mantra that, as Philip adequately put it, your god must be a man-like god rather than a God-like man. You cannot think beyond a mother or father figure for God. You talk about God killing people in the same breath as you killing your own children for rebellion. This would be true if God was like you and your reasoning but I'm thankful that He isn't. Everything you say below brings God down to the human level. You don't seem to understand that it doesn't matter how bad or evil the Jews (the chosen ones) behave or anyone else for that matter, they will all have to answer to God eventually. I am content that my God is a God of justice. He is a God that, because He loved his creation, gave us the free will to either love Him or reject Him. The consequences of rejection were made abundantly clear to them, and subsequently to us, that rejection will be the self infliction of eternal punishment. In my view, punishment, to have any meaning, must be experienced. Death and instantaneous oblivion is not a punishment. Take judicial hanging as an example; the punishment aspect can only be the period from conviction and sentence to taking the drop. Once he is dead there is no more punishment. However to a Christian it doesn't end at physical death, it will continue for ever, if the man was unrepentant before God prior to death.

We all have a sense of what justice should be. We all know the law and we are expected to obey it. If we don't then we can expect to have answer to the authorities and the ensuing consequences. When we have been wronged we expect the law to kick-in and provide us with justice. The guilty get punished and the innocent are freed. Where do we get this sense of justice from? Could this not be a part of God's image that He has given us? You talk about our God's unfairness in the way He will treat the wicked. How would you feel if the law treated you and your family in the same way as your god; that the offenders against you are not punished in a way that reflects the severity of their wrongdoings? Do you think they should be punished? There are those liberal thinkers who would say this is no more than vengeance. Rubbish! The laws are made and the consequences established for breaking them. In human terms vengeance is a arbitrary retaliatory act taken outside the law whereas within the law it is a prescribed act and called justice. God says 'vengeance is mine' - nobody will escape it. My authority for saying all this comes from the book that you so despise and I therefore don't expect you accept anything I have said.

Your rhetoric below regarding God's gleefulness is appalling, blasphemous and insulting to me, effectively ascribing to me your words about God.

As for the black book, if "only the good and faithful can understand it," then you don't need it in the first place, since the "good and faithful" are by definition, "good and faithful," whether they read the black book or not. This all comes back to the idea of predestination.

Finally, this utterance from you above in red is pathetic and typical of your trying to use scientific reasoning to establish what and who God is. We become, as you put it, good and faithful by reading and studying the Bible in the first place otherwise how would anyone know how to try and become 'good and faithful' or even approach it? There are people like you who have studied the Bible and haven't received any understanding from it. By your reasoning, because you now have a great knowledge of physics, you should have had this knowledge imparted to you from birth without any studying because you were born intelligent enough to comprehend it. As for saying that you have 'gained some knowledge of the Almighty', do you then expect other truth seeking people to throw in their lot with your description of God? How do you convince others that your evaluation of God is true and correct? You would love it if we all said "OK Neville you have convinced us that the Bible is satanic so please teach us more about God and how to worship Him and answer our questions like, how should we live our lives, what does God expect of us, what will happen after we are dead etc. etc?" This requires a great deal of trust from others that you aren't just another religious crackpot. If you want to impart to others what they should believe about God, then you are going to have to give them something more than just your word or your feelings. You can't. I have asked you several times but you never say anything that a truth seeker can actually get hold of. Its all about what Neville Jones thinks with no substanc to it. It would appear that you are the only one in the whole world that God has revealed this truth to.

Jack


Neville Jones wrote:
Jack,
We have been through all this before: my answers to your questions are not the answers that you want to hear and therefore I haven't answered your questions. This would only be true if you qualified it with, "to [my] satisfaction." As for your latest question, I did attempt to answer it in a thought-provoking way. The Almighty is just, yes, as a loving mother/father unity is just. If a child goes off and 'does their own thing' and that 'thing' leads to the child's death, then the child has brought the consequences of their deliberate, rebellious actions upon themselves; the mother/father unity has not gone after them and killed them. Furthermore, it is unthinkable that the mother/father unity will seek to torment the child for eternity. What sort of mother or father would do that? On the contrary, the mother/father unity will cry at the graveside at the stupidity and futility of this disaster. They won't rub their hands with glee and say, "right, I'm going to teach you a little lesson." Yet this is what you are effectively ascribing to God. I did not think that you would answer the two simple questions put to you. I also thought that you would use the 'excuse' that you did, in fact, use. How did I predict this? By having gained some knowledge of you. How do I know that The Almighty would not tell the 'self-chosen-ones' to engage in one of their many orgies of hatred, rape, plunder and murder? By having gained some knowledge of The Almighty. (This answers your second question, below.) As for the black book, if "only the good and faithful can understand it," then you don't need it in the first place, since the "good and faithful" are by definition, "good and faithful," whether they read the black book or not. This all comes back to the idea of predestination. *Philip* - I seek to do away with the traditional concept of hell, not for my own satisfaction and contentment, but because of the slur that such a concept attaches to our Father/Mother in heaven.

Neville.


    -----Original Message-----
    *From:* jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    *Sent:* Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:49:30 +0100

    Neville you haven't answered my question. When you do I'll answer
    yours.

    Jack

    Neville Jones wrote:
    Jack,

    The Almighty is complete; neither male nor female, but a perfect
    harmony of masculine and feminine.

    Since I am a man, I cannot possibly understand The Almighty, but
    I can open my eyes and see what is around me.

    If you worship the depraved, bloodthirsty god of the Jews, you
    are worshipping the Devil. Open your eyes to what is really
    happening in Palestine and Iraq. Go beyond what the Jewish media
    is brainwashing you with. Does this slaughter of Palestinians and
    Iraqis please The Almighty? Does it please the Devil?

    Two questions for you to think about. Then I'd like your answers
    to both.

    Regards,

    Neville.



        -----Original Message-----
        *From:* jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
        *Sent:* Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:26:32 +0100

        Neville,
        Is your god a 'just' god, if so how does he dispense his
        justice and how did you come to know this? Your view appears
        to be a totally 'human' one.

        Jack



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