[geocentrism] Re: Tides
- From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 08:35:38 -0700 (PDT)
1. Inventing imaginary albit creative solutions does not constitue a
demonstration of validity in either in the method use to arive at those
solutions or the substance of the solution itself!..................aka making
comments does not constitue addressing the questions or issues raised!
2.Grav is the only source of pressure for the tides it is also the only force
that cause water to "seek it's level". The earth is a sphere therefore the
level it seeks is symmetrically spherical unless of course gravity is pulling
some parts ( the tidal bumps) more then other parts due to the differences in
point mass and berry centers.......ummm!? .....The tides do not act
symmetrically around the earth they are lumps and bumps on the earth that only
closly follow the timing of the sun moon and even at that they are.....the
postion of the sun moon dose not change the fact that even if both sun moon are
on the same side the tidal bulges are on both sides of the earth....what dose
all this mean ...regardless of any "hydraulic or wave action" (not discounting
the importance of it) but the force that creates the disparities in the oceans
that allow "hydraulic actions" and is still the humble gravitational one. It is
the only force out there to cause
anything to "seek it's level" & "water feeds" is gravitational
accelerations......therefore..no matter how we attempt to explain it no matter
what acrobatic mathematical/conceptualization formulation you attempt ...In MS
you have a accelerated tide that is not consistent with the assertion that
bodies in free fall cannot detect accelerations wrt to the bodies they are in
free fall too.....because no matter how small the grav deviation is if it were
not there then in MS you could not explain what we observe in the tides......
All the talk about "U tubes" , "seeking the level", "water feeds, "point
masses" and "berry centers"... is ALL still just silly and vain attempts at
conceptual acrobatics!?....In MS the tides are accelerated due to grav and
differently from the rest of the earth even if the effect is amplified by
"other considerations"...They are accelerated wrt the exact same bodies that
the earth is in free fall to....thus accelerations in
free fall can most certainly be detected even in MS...Thus GTR is completely
erroneous at it's very best.....!?
The whole idea is utter absolute wilfully ignorant nonsense.!..The very idea
that we could not expect to detect the acceleration in free fall but because
grav is pulling all equally but we observe the tidal effects due to
differential grav pull. Regardless of what other actions (wave or hydriodic)
are out there to "amplify" the effects if the grav accelerations were not
different to start with then there would be nothing to "amplify"..!!!??? You do
not make the logical contridicions disapear by being "more creative"........!?
You guys can promote tidal concoctions of nonsense all day long .....nothing
anyone has put forward explains anything excpet how creative people can get in
their imaginations!? Merely telling us all the various ways things could work
will never ever:
A. make the logical contradictions go away..unless either the tides are not
caused by gravity or gravity does not work the way MS Claims....there is far
more evidence that gravity does not work the way MS claims then there is
evidence that it does!
B.validate your wild imaginary solutions even if they were true with a logical
path to arive at them!....You MUST have a demonstratable logical path to the
conclusions for it to be reasonable or scientific ...not just assume the
mechanics of the entire universe and everythting in it (Damn the observations,
we will just reinterpret them in light of our assumptions.) and call it
"reasonable" because..it fits your world view ...and ......" well it could be"!?
When you get some "science" behind your imaginations then by all means lets
explore those ideas..but untill then your only engaging in "wishfull
thinking"...not logical paths to reasonable conclusions based on any
observations!!!!..your basing eveything on assumtions about physics not physics
there is a difference!........... These are just empty imaginations that have
no possibility of validation nor are they even "falseifiable" .....For crying
out loud they are not even considered "science"according to the great touted "
Scientific method"!!
Thus far the only "Science" (observations & demonstratable experience framed in
logic) or a comparitivly substanative solution as well as a logical path
to that conclusion(s)/ solutions anyone puts forward has & is always avoided
like the plague... ..why?!....The power in ideas/theories is not it's ability
create or understand but rather their ability to either support or destroy
world views.....I am a destroyer of entire worlds & that does and should scare
the living hell out of people. However, like dumb cattle many seem content to
stampede with the rest of the slaughter herd and go right over the cliff strait
in to it!
----- Original Message ----
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 12:11:06 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Tides
Allen also said..
Secondly: Note, that the tides themselfs do not corespond exactly with the
suns/ moons timing although it is within 4 min but always lagging behind....If
the tides were being pushed rather then pulled then we should expect to see the
tides advance the sun/ moon not lag behind.... also even if gravity were acting
at the speed of light ( i do not aggree) but even if it did....there is still a
inconsistency in positions and the lag times..any solution would involve
harmonic anylisis...ummm..well, why not start with that in the first place?
Yes I have also wondered about this lag of time. But when you think about it,
we have at least two time controlling factors.. First the grav "field"
("field" here is a nonsense term) , which may be light speed, but which I
suspect is instantaneous, and I favour this, for another subject later, which
in any case is really short and not a factor in four minutes.
The delay, if you and I are correct in that the water feed to the wave crest
comes from either side.. is in the simple dynamics of hydraulics, or water
flow..
From our previous correspondence:
The tide is like a wave form. Water flows to both sides of the crest of this
wave. The ocean as a whole like the atmosphere must rotate with a general speed
similar to the solid earth. Imagine the turbulence if this was not so. Agreed
Whilst I accept your agreement with the latter part, re the rotation, I am not
absolutely confident about the flow to the crest coming from both sides of the
wave because the wave appears to move around the world..
To comprehend this it is necessary to go back to wave mechanics, and look at a
normal tidal wave.. Why do they call it a toosarmi? For that matter why a Tidal
wave.. if it aint caused by the moon, but by an earthquake..
No matter, as this wave crest moves across the ocean at incredible speed, no
water moves with it. We have a peak rise to the crest where the water is
energised to rise up on the front .. And I suspect it might be the opposite on
the the trailing side. I am thinking about the fact that just before the wave
hits the coast, it sucks all the water out to sea. This is a volumetric factor
due to water depth, and not part of our exercise.. Its the wave in the ocean
which we are dealing with.. and I still think it possible that energy is
pushing water to the crest on the trailing edge, which cause water to back up
on the leading edge, supporting my original statement Water flows to both
sides of the crest .
Tell me what you think!
Look forward to your reply.
Philip
----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Daves
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:10 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Tides
There is much to agree on and look at here.....
----- Original Message ----
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 6:30:28 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Tides
Though I have never ventured into the discussion on the tides, it being a
mystery, outside my comprehension, I've decided to look at it. Some have
claimed the moon does not cause the tides. Well this raises more questions.. If
the moons gravity is not the cause, then certainly something related to the
moon and its position above, is the cause. I'm going to think on that. I
would agree with you that it is related....just not as directly as many
suppose..i explain my thoughts in greater detail further down
Also we have the anomaly of the pendulum under the lunar eclipse which NASA
though claiming attention to it seem to be avoiding it, or have no answer.
What is importaint to note about this observation is that it is the best
posible configuration for the sun an moon to exert a combined gravitaional
influence on the tides....and yet rather then making the pendulums get lighter
due to grav acceleration toward the sun and moon ...it does just the
opisite...it makes them get heavier...thus we can see the only experiment to
date that has ever been able to distinquish the effect of grav as pull or push,
demonstrates a push effect not a pull effect.
Secondly: Note, that the tides themselfs do not corespond exactly with the
suns/ moons timing although it is within 4 min but always lagging behind....If
the tides were being pushed rather then pulled then we should expect to see the
tides advance the sun/ moon not lag behind.... also even if gravity were acting
at the speed of light ( i do not aggree) but even if it did....there is still a
inconsistency in positions and the lag times..any solution would involve
harmonic anylisis...ummm..well, why not start with that in the first place?
Thirdly: The effect or the strength of the gravitational effect is certainly
not strong enouph to push or pull the tides either way.....simply the detected
gravitaional effect is too week to have any significant direct affect on the
oceans to create the tides we observe...
Further, in my own writings re gravity/inertia, to Allen, I find seeming
contradictions about this whole business. Is it just a matter of scale and
distribution.. I read others mathmatical analysis, and I acknowledge that I am
not gifted in maths, and cannot comment specifically, but I have experienced
enough to know that a mathmatical analysis is only as true as the data
inputted.. Leave something out and it is in error. And that is always on the
cards. A physicist who understands nature, should be able to explain movements
without resort to complex formulae.
Absolutly correct! In fact it was Herbert Dingle that stated:"...in the
language of mathematics we can tell lies as well as truths, and withing the
scope of mathematics itself there is no possible way of telling one from the
other. we can distinquish them only by experience or by reasoing outside the
mathematics, applied to the posible relation between the mathematical solution
and its supposed physical correlate" Science at the crossroads pg 33 also
found in volume 1 GWW pg 50
At this moment I am having doubts. If I was correct about gravity in the
effects on free fall, affecting every particle equally in the space vehicle,
then how can the water be pulled up separately and further than the rest of the
Mass earth? Shouldn't the whole thing stay together and dance a wobble with the
moon? Just a bigger spacedhip. YES
Was it Regner, who said that the solid world is spinning under the tides?
Someone did. I thought it at one time. This cannot be true, and I mean true in
the conventional system
The tide is like a wave form. Water flows to both sides of the crest of this
wave. The ocean as a whole like the atmosphere must rotate with a general speed
similar to the solid earth. Imagine the turbulence if this was not so. Agreed
In geocentricism:
Just a small final word , as regards geocentrism, and how far we can take the
Biblical claim to the earth shall not move. If the earth is absolutely still,
then the moons variations of the elliptic, must not cause any secondary
orbital/translationary movement to the earth. What that does to the
barycentre, the math man can tell us.
But I feel, intuitively that if the earth was FIXED the moon would have to
eventually form a true circular orbit. Wouldn't it. I think this gets to the
aether as it rotates as a whole ...but with moving currents like currents in a
streams..with individual edies and such even though the stream still has a
overall direction of flow..?
This is where the aether , the universe , and independent motions, (of the
moon.) make a complex problem as regards dynamics. (from our viewpoint)
One motion of the moon around the world almost daily, is not an individual
movement, but rather a locked in with the "aether sphere" rotation, and
therefore, not like a normal real independent movement as with similar orbiting
moons around other solar system planets. In addition the moon has its own
independent motion against this universal movement. What we see is the
resultant. But what we feel inertially is the standard 28 day orbit. Just as
what we feel inertially with respect to the earth, is a 24 hour rotation. The
two systems are dynamically equivalent as regards inerial properties.
But the tide follows the moon, which means that the universal rotation of the
stars, aether, and slipping moon, all contribute in some way to the tides.
I agree ..but since I think gravity is best explained by a vibration within the
aether as sand particles vibrating on a vibrating membrane......I would tend to
think of the relationships ( positions of sun/moon) in terms of how changing
the postions of the furniture in a room will change the harmoics of that a
room.... vibrations will squez as well as shatter and do all the things we
observe but where the furniture in the room is will determine where and to what
degree the effects are most and least noticable..... the gravitaionl vibration
resonates in the aether but the aether is rotating around a fixed earth..
I have much to retreat into my shell to think about..
comments welcome.. Guiding lights.
Philip
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