[geocentrism] Re: Three days and three nights
- From: "Dr. Neville Jones" <ntj005@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 22:54:40 +0100 (BST)
Carl,
You have the basis of another fine article here, perhaps "A Biblical 'Day' " ?
I particularly like the way it starts.
What do you think? Would you like to mould it into webpage shape/format?
Neville.
Carl Felland <cfelland@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Neville,
Because I'm looking at a day in a new light, I think I'm able to look at
the situation more objectively. BTW, you may want to change the
Biblical calendar overview chart for when the day begins in the Biblical
Calendar.
Like Allen, I wish I had my charts or could send the image on my marker
board as I discuss this.
My main points are:
1. Understanding sunrise to sunrise days makes the account of the
Exodus and the appointed times (mo'ed) clearer.
2. Changing away from a Biblical Calendar is the root of the conflict
in Judaism on how the appointed times work.
3. Understanding the account of Messiah's death, burial and
resurrection is enhanced when one looks into the Greek, in part, because
of bias of the translators toward Sunday worship.
4. Understanding the sign of Jonah in light of Messiah becomes more
straightforward.
Having attempted to direct my family in the Biblical holidays for almost
ten years now has resulted in me wrestling with calendar issues on an
annual basis. One verse that now has become much easier to understand
is Leviticus 23:5.
Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth [day] of the first month at even [is] the
LORD'S passover.
You have daylight on the fourteenth and them at dusk is passover. The
original passover was eaten at night. The next day, the fifteenth, the
Israelites prepared to leave. It was then in the night of the fifteenth
that they left.
Num 33:3 And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the
fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the passover the
children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the
Egyptians.
Deu 16:1 Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto the LORD
thy God: for in the month of Abib the LORD thy God brought thee forth
out of Egypt by night.
The fifteenth day is celebrated as the first day of Unleavened Bread.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of
unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
The sixteenth day of the first month is also a specially designated day
in the Biblical calendar.
Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted
for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
This day is known as wavesheaf. The sabbath mentioned in the verse is
the previously mentioned fifteenth. Different Jewish and Christian
factions debate whether this sabbath was the fifteenth or the weekly
sabbath that fell within the seven day period of Unleavened Bread.
There would have been no confusion on this issue at the time Moses
wrote. I feel that the confusion entered when the weekly and annual
sabbaths were divorced by a counterfeit calendar with seven day weeks
not associated with the moon.
Thus we have three very important days in the Scriptures that are basic
to understanding the death, burial and resurrection of Messiah. These
are Passover on the fourteenth, First day of Unleavened Bread on the
fifteenth, and day the sheath is waved on the sixteenth. In short, I
think these are the three days prophesied by the sign of Jonah.
The Old Testament law concerning the crucifixion is found in Deuteronomy
21:23.
Deu 21:23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou
shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged [is]
accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God
giveth thee [for] an inheritance.
The execution would have, I assume, happened in the daylight period.
What is crucial is that the body not remain all night on the tree, but
be buried the same day. Here is strong evidence for a day being the
light period followed by a dark period. The two examples of this type
of burial are below.
Jos 8:29 And the king of Ai he hanged on a tree until eventide:6256,
6153 and as soon as the sun8121 was down,935 Joshua commanded that they
should take his carcass down, from the tree, and cast it at the entering
of the gate of the city, and raise thereon a great heap of stones, that
remaineth unto this day.3117
Jos 10:26 And afterward, Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged
them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the
evening.6153
Jos 10:27 And it came to pass at the time of the going down of the sun,
that Joshua commanded, and they took them down off the trees, and cast
them into the cave wherein they had been hid, and laid great stones in
the cave's mouth, which remain until this very day.3117
At sunset the work began to get the dead off the tree and buried. It
seems that the burial could not have been completed in the period
between sunset and dark. Moving a great heap of stones and great stones
would apparently take a period well into the night. In the same way,
the burial of Messiah probably took much of the night.
Below are the four gospel accounts of the burial of Yahshua (Jesus). My
previous understanding was that evening began the Sabbath and that there
had to be a very quick burial before dark. If, however, the night is
part of the previous day, the burial process would be legal as long as
it was completed before sunrise.
Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea,
named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
Mat 27:58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate
commanded the body to be delivered.
Mat 27:59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean
linen cloth,
Mat 27:60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the
rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and
departed.
Mat 27:61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting
over against the sepulchre.
Mar 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the
preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
Mar 15:43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also
waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and
craved the body of Jesus.
Mar 15:44 And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling
[unto him] the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
Mar 15:45 And when he knew [it] of the centurion, he gave the body to
Joseph.
Mar 15:46 And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him
in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock,
and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.
Mar 15:47 And Mary Magdalene and Mary [the mother] of Joses beheld
where he was laid.
Luk 23:50 And, behold, [there was] a man named Joseph, a counsellor;
[and he was] a good man, and a just:
Luk 23:51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;)
[he was] of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for
the kingdom of God.
Luk 23:52 This [man] went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
Luk 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in
a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
Luk 23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee,
followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and
rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the
bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that
sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be
broken, and [that] they might be taken away.
Joh 19:32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and
of the other which was crucified with him.
Joh 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead
already, they brake not his legs:
Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and
forthwith came there out blood and water.
Joh 19:35 And he that saw [it] bare record, and his record is true: and
he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be
fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
Joh 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him
whom they pierced.
Joh 19:38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of
Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might
take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave [him] leave. He came
therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
Joh 19:39 And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to
Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an
hundred pound [weight].
Joh 19:40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen
clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
Joh 19:41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden;
and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid. Joh
19:42 There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation
[day]; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
I had previously understood these accounts as having the burial occuring
essentially at sunset because of my bias of thinking that the Jewish day
then began at sunset or dark. In context, however, it was even (dusk)
when Joseph first asked for the body. Although the tomb was close, the
body had to be taken down, wrapped with a hundred pounds of spices and
the stone moved into place. One verse that had convinced me of a sunset
burial was Luke 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath
drew on. However, the Greek word for drew on involves becoming light.
G2020
epipho?sko?
ep-ee-foce'-ko
A form of G2017; to begin to grow light: - begin to dawn, X draw on.
It makes much more sense now to see the burial process taking most of
the night before the official start of the sabbath at sunrise.
That sabbath was the fifteenth. I make the point again that the annual
sabbath was a weekly sabbath as is always the case from John 19:31 The
Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should
not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was
an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and
[that] they might be taken away. The woman rested (Luke 23:56). The
Jewish leaders went to Pilate to have a guard set. They were concerned
that the disciples would steal the body within a period of three days.
I argue that the first day of their reckoning was the day Yahshua died.
So now the tomb is guarded and the disciples' access is prevented for
the remainder of the fifteenth (second day) and the sixteenth (third day).
Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation,
the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
Mat 27:63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he
was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
Mat 27:64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the
third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say
unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be
worse than the first.
Mat 27:65 Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make
[it] as sure as ye can.
Mat 27:66 So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone,
and setting a watch.
The timing of the resurrection is a subject that has been touched on
before I began this paper.
Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the
first [day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see
the sepulchre.
Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first [day] of the week,
they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
Luk 24:1 Now upon the first [day] of the week, very early in the
morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they
had prepared, and certain [others] with them.
Joh 20:1 The first [day] of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when
it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from
the sepulchre.
This is Sunday, right? Maybe in the bias of the translators, but not in
the original. First of all, the Greek word epipho?sko is used in
Matthew 28:1 "and it began to dawn towards" in a clearly dawn light,
supporting a burial that took most of the night from the same word being
used in Luke 23:54. The Roman week was actually eight days long at the
time began with Saturday. I will defer to David Pollina here...
When the women came to the tomb, they found Him already risen on a very
specific day - MIA SABBATON. 'MIA', (#3391), does not mean "first", it
means "one". The word appears 79 times in the Bible, and the KJV
translates it "one", "a", or "a certain" 69 of these times. It is
translated "first" only 8 times, 5 of them relative to the resurrection
of Messiah, and the other 3 fully understandable with the meaning of
"one". The Greek word for "first is PROTOS, not MIA. 'Sabbaton',
(#4521), is a Hebrew word transliterated into the Greek. The origin of
this word is sited by Thayer's to be 'SHABBATH', (#7676, but it most
likely comes directly from 'SHABBATHOWN', (#7677). Of 68 occurrences,
59 of them are correctly translated in the KJV as "Sabbath". 9 [sic]
times, the translation "week" is used, 8 or these in proximity to MIA.
Sabbaton can not ever mean "week" when the Hebrew root is understood.
SHABBATH is the weekly Sabbath, "week" is 'SHABUWA', (#7620), "week, or
period of days", as found in Daniel's prophecy of 70 "weeks". The
concept of a weekly time period is never used in the New Testament
Greek. In fact, SHABUWA does not mean "week" per se, but just "period
of seven".
This forced translation of MIA SABBATON is due primarily to the
pre-conceived theory of a 'Sunday' resurrection, assuming than 'Sunday'
is the "first day of the week". However, as we have already seen above,
neither Saturday nor Sunday would have been possible since there is not
enough time for either to include 3 periods of light and 3 periods of
dark after a Friday death. MIA SABBATON does not mean "first of the
week", it can not ever mean this. Further, the Roman concept of the
"week", initially had "Saturday" as the first day until well after the
first century, when the first day became "Sunday" due to a new emphasis
on sun worship, so to assume that the writers mean "first day of the
week (Sunday)" is historically implausible for the first century.
SHABBATHOWN is a special Sabbath, used specifically in Torah relating to
the Holy Days. Two SHABBATHOWN are the first and last days of
Unleavened Bread (15th/21st). Starting from the 15th, the next seven
SHABBATH are also SHABBATHOWN - the "counting the Omer" to Pentecost.
The 16th is also a SHABBATHOWN, when the Firstfruits wave offering was
presented in the Temple (Numbers 28:26). [Note: I think this Numbers
28:26 reference is actually pointing to Pentecost; I do not see
Firstfruits wave offering specifically called a Shabbathown, although it
is likely one based on its special sacrifices and importance (Lev 23:
11-14)]
The combined phrase, MIA SABBATON, only shows up 8 times, and 6 of them
relate to this timing of the resurrection. The other two also mean
plainly "one to the Sabbaths". In fact, it appears that this phrase
correlates directly with the counting of the Omer. In light of it's
[sic] true meaning , let's examine the four Gospel accounts in greater
detail. All four speak of the Women coming to the tomb on "one to the
Sabbaths", but He was already gone. One tells us exactly when He rose.
Matthew 28:1 Now after the Sabbath, at dawn on [Mia Sabbaton]. Here is
the interlinear with KJV English: [I will attempt this without the Greek
font] "in the end" (OPSE DE 3796-1161) "of the Sabbath" (SABBATON 4521)
"as it began to dawn" (EPIPHOSKO 2020) "toward" (EIS 1519) "the first"
(MIA 3391) "[day] of the week" (SABBATON 4521).
One of the first things that should be noted, is that SABBATON in both
uses is a plural word, "Sabbaths". It clearly points to more than one
special 'Sabbath' ending. Based on the Hillel calendar, this is often
used to support a 'Saturday' Sabbath on the 17th, thus Y'shua was
crucified on the 14th (Sabbatarian view) or 16th (Christian view), the
women rested on the weekly 'Saturday' Sabbath, and came on 'Sunday'
morning the 18th. However, the entire premise upon which this rests we
have demonstrated to be scientifically false. The writer must be
referring to something else.
Two Sabbaths are indeed referred to in the Bible Luke 23:56 says the
women prepared the burial spices then rested on the Sabbath. Mark 16:1
says that after the Sabbath they bought burial spices. "DIAGINOMAI'
(#1230), translated "after" is a rarely used word that can also mean
"between". Thus it can be read that they bought spices "between the
Sabbaths". The accounting in Luke is very clear that the women followed
the burial, returned home and prepared spices. This was obviously
before the first SABBATON, the 15th, but it does not exclude the
possibility that they purchased additional spices the night after that
Sabbath, the the 16th was also a SABBATON.
>From a reading of MIA SABBATON as being the first day of the Omer
count, the 17th, the text makes perfect sense. What the writer of
Matthew is saying is that the Shabbats of Passover and First Fruits were
ending and it was about to be 'one to the Shabbats', the first day
counting towards Pentecost - the 17th. (Pollina, David, 2004.
Reuniting the Covenant: Paths of the Covenant, Tushiyah Press. pp. 237-239)
I could go further in David's book, but I think this will give us
something to discuss.
One more point, "heart of the earth" can be associated with death (see
Jonah 2:2 and Psalms 63:9). The daylight period of the fourteenth when
Messiah died would then be included in this time. The night of the
fourteenth would be included (Passover). The daylight and night of the
fifteenth would be included (First day of Unleavened Bread). Finally,
Messiah would remain in the heart of the earth for the entire daylight
period of the sixteenth and part of the night of the sixteenth (Day of
First Fruits wave offering).
Carl
Dr. Neville Jones wrote:
>Dear All,
>
>Further to Carl and Robert advocating a different understanding of the three
>days and three nights that Messiah spent "in the heart of the earth," I have
>taken a more detailed look at the website that they recommended.
>
>Although the author's case for "three days and three nights" is patchy in my
>opinion, I am impressed by his analysis and reasoning on "in the heart of the
>earth." I therefore have changed my mind regarding the amount of time that
>Messiah was in the tomb and no longer hold to it being "three days and three
>nights." I do regard the time "in the heart of the earth" to be very close to
>"three days and three night," in the literal sense, but not the intombment.
>
>Hopefully this will enable us to advance further in these discussions and to
>approach a concensus of opinion.
>
>Neville.
>
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