[geocentrism] Re: The mountain
- From: "philip madsen" <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "geocentrism list" <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 09:02:54 +1000
Hi Paul. Following on from my last question which responded to your first
point, Here within is the rest.. I do hope you have brown ink in your pc.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Deema
To: Geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 5:13 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] The mountain
Philip M
re Absence -- From philip madsen Thu Feb 8 08:04:05 2007
Just returned, lots waiting, I'll make a start here.
I can't agree with you on degeneration of intellectual capabilities. I
contend that they have not changed measurably since earliest records.
There is a tendency within a population for those near the top of life
expectancy to yearn for the good old days, to lament the decay of standards et
al. My father died asserting that he was better off when he was earning "six
quid a week" despite not having an answer to my observation that at that time
he did not own a refridgerator (we got one in 1951), a car, indoor plumbing, an
insulated house or distributed heating, on tap hot water etc. It seems that
you are missing the point.. Your father is absolutely correct. Six quid a week,
and none of the modern attributes of car, fridge et al, and none of the total
moral decay that went with all of these, is indeed a far better quality of
life, physically and morally.
Moreover, I personally lamented this loss by the late fifties, my 20's, and
most definitely by the time the 60's erupted. Hardly what you refer to as "near
the top of life expectancy". I am not saying that I did not appreciate the car
or the TV or the video as they came along, but I am definitely acknowledging
that whereas I saw the dangers thereof and fought these dangers, the great
majority did not and do not, and are entrapped.
Nearly every show on TV today has an accompanying warning.. In short it
says, "This movie contains pornography, and should be viewed only by mature
audiences." come off it! A truly mature adult would not watch porn..thats a
quality of the immature. which exists in all of us to be sure, and to be
resisted like any other temptation to sin. The immature just don't recognise
the sin word, or any need to resist it.
A friend (of my age) maintains that life expectancy is falling, but a search
of available data gave the lie to that. I did not communicate that to her of
course, because we males know the value of circumspection. (And she is a nurse
no less!) this is a false picture.. what is happening is that they are keeping
more sick people alive for a wee bit longer, the walking dead. Modern diet and
drugs are creating illnesses. Statistics will prove that doctors and hospitals
kill more people per year, than do guns including those in the hands of
criminals. If it only included the honest citizen, then this ratio is
phenomenally higher against doctors. I will send this report as soon as I find
it again.
It is common to hear that crime is on the rise, yet records would -- more or
less -- give the lie to that, especially when the increasing ability of the
media to report crime is taken into account.
Again a bias. If you allow the real crimes of prostitution and abortion,
just to name two then indeed crime is endemic. The media does not come into it
as far as statistics records go.. Media though certainly adds to the crime
factor by promotion. Can we go past your "more or less" and get the real crime
statistics as against say 1945. and every decade on from then.
The proof of the pudding is, that if you leave your car unlocked with keys in
today, it will get stolen.. In 1950, everybody did it and the car thief was
rare, and usually a joy rider. not an organised gang.
Morality is a cyclic thing in all societies (if they are at least faintly
dynamic) and swing like a pendulum between permissive and repressive.True!
Suddam Hussein kept Iraq well under control. Even Christians were safe from
Islam.. Not the so called nominal Christians you mention from the USA and our
good old Aussie. They are also influenced to a considerable degree by social
and economic phenomena. I would contend that God has little to do with it
(unless you propose direct influence) which argument would be supported for
instance by comparison between the violent homicide rate of the USA, loudly
proclaimed to be Christian, with that of the demonstrably non-christian Japan.
If you do propose direct influence, then one could wonder at the direction
induced by that influence! Of course God as a normal rule does not directly
interfere. But the church before this modern era always kept morality on an
even keel by direct repression.. Not just the fear of Hell and damnation, which
was good as far as it went, but also by direct corporal and capital
punishments. I approve of a return to these conditions..
Modern church says men are enlightned and will chose the good without need of
repressive controls.. I do think the proof is there , that this philosophy has
not worked and will never work.
The practice of leaving one's doors unlocked is largely related to the size
of the community with its bearing upon anonymity. One does not prey upon one's
neighbours, a position unforgetably illustrated by that line from "Support you
local sherrif" wherein the statement (in defence against murder) "Shucks Paw!
T'wern't anybody we knowed!" was uttered. The mobility offered by modern
technology of course, allows the latent native low morality to permit preying
on someone else's neighbour. The anonymity has the added advantage that if
anyone should discount such a defence, then he -- the recalcitrant -- is
unlikely to be brought to book. Yep well hidden in that is some tacit
agreement with what daddy says about the good old days. Todays prisons are free
motels, and more likely to encourage crime rather than deter it.
The division of the population into groups according to their abilities has
not changed. Economics has always determined (in the long run -- it sometimes
takes a few generations to ride roughshod over the nobility) who would be paid
the most. My father, on learning what my income was in my thirties, responded
in a manner which indicated that he felt uncomfortable. I now recognise that
those who can write slick advertising copy will be paid vastly more than my
years of learning and experience in a technical calling will command. That is
because electronic devices don't break down very often and even in manufacture,
it is generally uneconomic to devote more than a few minutes to rectification
before consigning that example to the junk pile.
I read Dickens in the nominated period (in school) -- "A tale of two cities".
It is great literature and I'm glad to have read it but in the end it has been
of little use. I got much more from reading Plato (not in school) -- though, I
admit, not much Plato. The latter is more difficult but Plato teaches directly
while only a snapshot of history and historical inferences will be gained from
Dickens. But that is a personal view and I would still support teaching the
appreciation of the Arts -- not just literature, but painting, sculpture,
music, poetry etc. From my interest in etymology and semantics, I do regret not
having any Latin, though my bit of French has occasionally been of use. I'm
told that philosophical values are being taught today. I regret that this was
not available to me.ART is individual.. I have no time for it as a subject of
education.. I like good music. Thats a recreation that comes naturally, not by
education. Its a case of which cap fits whose head.
Now while these comments are in response to items you have raised, I have not
thus far, addressed the issue of intelligence. Newton commented that if he had
seen further than his predecessors, then it was because he had stood on the
shoulders of giants. Yet his (and Leibnitz?) development of calculus among
other achievements, demonstrate that he was not lacking in intelligence, which
if his predecessors were of greater stature in this matter, should have robbed
him of that opportunity. If you look at Egyptian, Roman and others attempts at
mensuration, and they were *more* intelligent, why then did they not even
deduce the mathematical concept of zero? I see all of Man's progress to be
essentially linear, with constant intellectual assets, which produces an
expanding body of knowledge.
Insight that gives one the ability to expand an idea is not really an example
of intelligence. Its more a gift. like inspiration. Perhaps that is what
Newton meant. In any case I am careful not to credit Newton with anything other
than being a thief and a cabalist. Just as "Macaroni" stole the radio credit
from Tesla.
Knowledge is not representative of IQ.
As my opening statement implied, I agree that intelligence has not
degenerated in healthy men over the millenia. The original man, Adam? had
"perfect intelligence" From then onwards a decline in health both physically
and mentally can cause a linear decline of intelligence in the general
community, but this does not preclude the resurgence of genetically equal
perfect intelligence amongst some individuals throughout history.
I would dispute yours of the ancients, "did they not even deduce the
mathematical concept of zero". as being irrelevant or untrue. Mathmatics can be
just as effective graphically, geometry and vectors, without numbers for some
people.
I am sure they knew when there was no more pennies in their purse?
You may decide that Adam is symbolic if you wish, but for me the reality is
that when our first parents ate of the tree of knowledge, they gained ALL
knowledge. ALL that mankind would ever accumulate into our future, and even
more than that. Having all this knowledge of "Good and Evil" , their natural
intelligence saw how useless this developement would be, and they rejected it ,
turning instead to the simpler life which the second Adam, Jesus, taught.
From this it is a simple step to understand how the earlier ancients, the
close descendents of Adam, also having this knowledge, rebelled against their
parents intelligence, and built the great material civilisations with science
we can only dream about, and wonder at as we dig up their artifacts. That they
died, the flood being the first most notable, is proof of the degenerate
direction in which such pursuits of science lead .
In conclusion, and in somewhat agreement with what you said, but more from
the spiritual position, the descent of man is not linear. It is cyclic.
Scientific progress, affluent society, moral decay, collapse and suffering,
moral recovery, and back to scientific progress, each cycle worse than the
previous.
We can observe this easily in recent history. The late 19th century boom in
science, with increasing anti religious, "free thinking " movements the world
over, moral decline, World war One. A return to God and morality. Soon, as
science progressed, we have the moral decline, the "roaring 20's and 30's"
WW2. a return to God, morality and scientific progress.. By the 60's we were
well into moral decay again, much worse than ever before.
But it is different this time.. War is just another TV adventure series.. We
do well to heed the warning.. Just as in the time of Noah, I think it was that
Jesus warned us...
It's late -- more later. Soon I think... Philip.
Paul D
Perhaps the only period of true and relative stability was during the
glorious age of the Church, the middle ages, which ended in rapid decline
culminating in the reformation, from which the final slide towards armageddon
began.
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