[geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
- From: j a <ja_777_aj@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 13:35:53 -0700 (PDT)
Nick,
I appreciate your concern for my soul, but since I accept Jesus Christs'
sacrifice on the cross as payment for my sins and the method of my souls'
reconnection to God, I do not see why you should be concerned. It does not
matter what church I go to nor with whom I associate. Salvation is a gift of
Gods' grace and my imperfect actions and thoughts cannot change that.
Your concern for the soul of a christian because he's not catholic is one of
the reasons why I and others reject catholicism in the first place. I once
listened to a non-denomination sermon that questioned the salvation of
catholics. I didn't like that point of view either. No Pope or priest or church
holds the key to my salvation nor yours. Jesus and Jesus alone, holds that key.
As for God giving Infallibility to anyone, Jesus is the only one. Why would God
give such a gift to someone selected by men? God has always picked the one
no-one would expect. Such a thought seems an insult to God. Man forms a church
and elects a leader and man expects God to gift this man with Infallibility
when discussing God? This is backwards and upside down and wrong on every level.
As for Popes contradicting themselves, I wouldn't know. But if my salvation
depends on recognizing them or belonging to thier church or confessing to a
priest or any other worldly, superficial, or "works" based condition you want
to name, as seems to be required of catholics by their popes, then they have
contradicted Jesus. Don't you consider him the first Pope? And therefore, I do
not believe God has given this ability to the Popes.
JA
"Niemann, Nicholas K." <NNiemann@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
JA,
Thank you for your follow up and what I believe is intended by you as an honest
answer.
When you say you could be wrong, "just like everyone else", you really don't
know everyone else could be wrong, since you admit you could be wrong anything.
So, this is just your opinion, correct? And just the opposite could be true.
Wouldn't it make sense to diligently explore whether God has given this
infallibility to someone, such as the Catholic Pope. You have to admit this
could impact your salvation. Have you ever studied the first hand Catholic
claim to this from the actual Catholic teachings on it. You'll find it is
Biblically based. And you'll find the official teachings of the Popes never
have contradicted themselves. It's your soul, I'm just giving you fair
warning.
Regards,
Nick.
---------------------------------
From: j a [mailto:ja_777_aj@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 5:25 PM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
Hey Nick,
Yes, I could be wrong about anything I think, just like everyone else. I pray
for wisdom and the ability to see the truth daily. I expect this will be a
lifelong process and at the end will still be wrong about many things. In the
meantime, I will use the knowledge I have at the moment. Right now, in my
opinion, I don't think that it is part of God's current plan to give that
particular gift to any specific person and hasn't since the writting of the new
testament books. Since the word was finished, there is no more to say. But I
could be wrong.
JA
"Niemann, Nicholas K." <NNiemann@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi ja,
Since your answer was "Anything is possible for God except for violating his
own word." and since giving someone the ability to be infallible on religious
matters does not violate His Word, I'll take it that you are logically
concluding "yes" to my question, i.e. that it is possible God has given a human
today the ability to always be right when speaking on matters of religious
faith. Did I follow your logic?
But since the Pope is a human, he could logically be one of the persons,
except you say it is inconceivable that God is giving this gift to the Popes,
because you believe the Popes have erred.
So, the next question is whether it is possible you have erred and the Popes
are right. Can you answer this simple question. The question is whether this is
"possible", not whether it is so or not. Or are you claiming you are
infallible?
(You have brought up the Catholic question, as has Neville by his outburst the
other day by challenging 2000 year old consistent Catholic teachings. I'm just
following it thru, until Neville acuses me of somehow initiating this and cuts
me off as he did in the past when I followed up his comments).
Nick.
---------------------------------
From: j a [mailto:ja_777_aj@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 4:23 PM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
I like logic questions so I'll take a stab at it. Anything is possible for God
except for violating his own word. I take it your pursuit of this question is
to convince others that the Pope could be infallible in his pronouncements.
While it is concievable that God might help someone along on occassion in what
they might say to someone, it is inconcievable that God is giving this gift to
the Popes because they have erred so much in the past and rule over a church so
steeped in bogus doctrine.
Now don't go off asking me to defend the catholic bogus doctrine claim, I state
it because that is what most any non-catholic christian thinks of catholicism.
So why would anyone holding that opinion, be convinced that the popes are
infallible simply because it could be possible?
If it were true that the popes were infallible then most non-catholic
christians would probably be catholics because the catholic church would be a
vastly different place. It would adhere to the teaching as found only in the
bible, because God would never violate his own word. Therfore, the popes are
not infallible.
Has any pope ever uttered a God inspired word? Everytime they quote scripture,
just like any other person.
Anyway, thats my logic on that question. Please don't let this start the
catholic/non-catholic arguements again. This was only to address the logic
involved in the question.
"Niemann, Nicholas K." <NNiemann@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Neville,
Is this a question you don't know the answer to or a question you just won't
answer because you know where the logic then leads. Please be honest.
Can almighty God do this today? I asked if it is "possible". Can the God who
created the universe also do this?
Regards,
Nick.
Nicholas K. Niemann
McGrath North Mullin & Kratz, PC LLO
Suite 3700 First National Tower
1601 Dodge Street
Omaha, NE 68102
402-633-1489 (Direct Phone)
402-952-1889 (Direct Fax)
402-301-3373 (Cell Phone)
nniemann@xxxxxxxx
www.mnmk.com
---------------------------------
From: Dr. Neville Jones [mailto:ntj005@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 8:59 AM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
This is not a question that I can answer.
Regards,
Neville.
"Niemann, Nicholas K." <NNiemann@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Sure.
Is it possible God has given a human living today the ability to always be
right when speaking on matters of religious faith.
Regards,
Nick.
---------------------------------
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