Again you demonstrate your inability to put things in context. Using your logic and lack of context ?.Jesus Deserved his death because he was a false prophet and taught contrary to the law??? Deuteronomy 4:2. 2. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you???.. 18:20. But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. John 13:34"A NEW COMANDMENT I GIVE YOU".. Mat 5: 21. ????. Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: (Exodus 20:13)??22. But I say unto you, ?????. 27. ???? Thou shalt not commit adultery: ?(Exodus 20:14)??..28. But I say unto you, ????.. 31. It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32. But I say unto you, ????.33. ???.. Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34. But I say unto you, ?????.38. ????.An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:39. But I say unto you, ???..43. ??., Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44. But I say unto you, ????. Until any of us were Redeemed by Jesus we were all "UNGODLY". This is the whole point and context that you twist?I know because Paul defines his terms in the PREVIOUS CHAPTER??... Romans 3:23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:? Romans 4:7. Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. .. this is taken from??.? Psalms 32: 1. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. 2. Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile & Jeremiah 31:34 ??saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more???. "Ungodliness" is used as a synonym for "sin or iniquity". Paul is not stating that the Ungodly are Just?He his pointing out that everyone is ungodly but we are made justifi ed when we put our faith and obedience in Jesus?This is what the L&P Taught ?You don?t bother to read beyond one or two verses do you?? And why should you, that would give the whole context away and show your arguments for the foolishness they are. "Dr. Neville Jones" <ntj005@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Your arguments make no sense they are circular, based on the ASSUMTIONS. These prove nothing about Paul. It is you who are blind by your desire to impeach Paul and assumtions about things for wich you do not understandand namely the L&P and Jesus, and were not there nor can you validate. Your argument does not hold up in any Logical debate or Court on the Earth,.. The following statement by Saul of Tarsus condemns him: (Rom 4:5 KJV) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Since: (Exo 23:7 KJV) Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked. And: (Prov 17:15 KJV*) He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to YeHVaH. (* The blessed Name has been reinstated in its rightful place in this scripture.) Furthermore, I have demonstrated from his own words that his accounts (regarding the supposed "conversion" of this self-proclaimed "apostle") are contradictory. People who give contradictory accounts are liars, because they do not stand up to cross examination. This is well known in courts of law. These are not my opinions, but facts from his own writings. Our understandings of the law and of the prophets can never be reconciled whilst you continue to be misled and deceived by Saul, because you base your position on lies. Neville. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail