[geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
- From: "Niemann, Nicholas K." <NNiemann@xxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:33:19 -0500
Carl,
It's interesting to see how far you guys go to get around what the Bible
actually says. So, you and Scott Nelson (and I assume the Jones family)
believe the way to read what John said is to ignore what John actually
clearly said in John 21:19, that the prophecy signified by what death
Peter would glorify God. Nelson asks how could the disciples get the
idea this signified Peter's death. Well....maybe because this is what
the God-inspired apostle John said.
To quote Neville..."Good grief!!!!!!!!!!".
Isn't it great that we have folks like Mr. Nelson 2000 years after the
fact who can finally enlighten the Christian world on what Christ really
meant when those disciples who were actually there with Christ couldn't
get it.
Thankfully, God actually gave us an infallible authority (the Catholic
Church's Popes) to deal with this nonsense.
Regards,
Nick.
_____
From: Carl Felland [mailto:cfelland@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 9:59 PM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
Hi,
Just thought I'd let Scott Nelson comment on 2 Peter 3. He attempts to
deal with it as it is.
http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/yahshua's.htm
Whenever Paul is called into question, someone inevitably brings up
Peter and what he said about Paul's letters that supposedly refers to
them as Scripture. This is assuming that the book of 2Peter is
authentic. * (see footnote at end of chapter) I give the book the
benefit of the doubt. The passage reads:
"...and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation
as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him,
has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of
these things; in which are some things hard to understand, which those
who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do
also the rest of the Scriptures." 2Peter 3:15,16 NKJV
Before we get to the subject of Yahshua's prophecy to Peter, there are
several things in this quote that should be pointed out. First, notice
that there is only one issue clearly stated by Peter in which we know he
is in agreement with Paul... the patience in persecution issue. Second,
the "things hard to understand" are not identified in this short
passage, much less outlined as to which position is correct and which is
the twisted version.* Third, it is interesting to note that in spite of
the fact that Peter has obviously read many of Paul's epistles and is
therefore fully aware of Paul claiming to be an apostle, Peter does not
call him a fellow apostle, but instead calls him "brother". Fourth,
claiming that Peter was endorsing Paul's letters, as the Holy Word of
God is a bit of a stretch. Though the Greek word for "Scripture" does in
fact mean "Holy Writings", and the Greek word for "rest" means "the rest
of any number or class under consideration". When Peter said, "as they
do", he wasn't doing anything more than comparing similarities in the
way some people deal with both Paul's writings and the Holy Word of God.
If we are concerning ourselves with only this passage, just exactly what
Peter thinks of Paul's writings is somewhat up for grabs.*
* When this passage is quoted, it is seldom continued on to the
next verse where Peter indicates which doctrine, in his view, is the
"twisted" version;
"You therefore, beloved, since you know these things
beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being
led away with the error of the law-less**. 2Peter 3:17
** Some translations read "wicked". The Greek word
literally means "lawless".
It must be admitted though that Peter is in fact being considerate and
speaking favorably of Paul. And this is in spite of the fact that
whenever Paul makes mention of Peter, Peter is never left in a positive
light! Peter is obviously taking a stand against the law-less doctrine
that many are deriving from Paul's letters, but he continues to speak
quite favorably of Paul. He apparently refuses to admit to himself or
believe that Paul was in fact preaching that the Law had been
superceded. In this, Peter would have been differing with James, or at
best, attempting to smooth over the situation.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: j a <mailto:ja_777_aj@xxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 8:40 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
Looks like everybody's after you Neville.
"Niemann, Nicholas K." <NNiemann@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Neville,
That's really convenient isn't it. Just treat the
portions of Scripture you don't agree with as forgeries. Very handy.
Especially for a fallible guy.
Seems like St. Peter anticipated you (and told you the
result of your folly as well).
Regards,
Nick.
_____
From: Dr. Neville Jones [mailto:ntj005@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 7:51 PM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
... Your arguments are unlearned, twisted and void of
any scripture or logic... I have already demostrated this time and time
again... You obviously are not interested in the truth, You like some
interpritaion of man that cannot withstand scriptural scrutiny...... I
have answered every single question and addressed every single issue you
cannot see becuse you refuse to see ..
The following was posted to the forum by me on
11.07.2005 at 19:05. My apologies if I have missed your reply:
Yeshuwa' was asked a direct question: What is the
greatest commandment? Is this true?
Yeshuwa' answers that direct question directly. Is this
true?
Saul teaches a different answer, which you claim is
because he is teaching "The law of Christ" (although these are your
words and do not appear in the Hebrew or in the Greek). Is this true?
If Saul is teaching "the law of Christ," then he is a
liar, because Yeshuwa' himself does not teach what Saul claims. Is this
true?
If Saul is not teaching "the law of Christ," then
exactly what is he teaching?
Neville.
P.S. Nick - Steven and I reject 1 and 2 Peter as being
forgeries, to answer your query.
_____
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