[geocentrism] Re: Moving Earth deception

  • From: "philip madsen" <joyphil@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:40:24 +1000

I do think so Marc..  Yes I am sure, and even though we don't comprehend 
entirely what is an angel, I'm sure carrying a planet or star or two would be 
no problem..  

Phil
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: marc-veilleux@xxxxxxxxxxxx 
  To: Geocentric 
  Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 1:10 PM
  Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Moving Earth deception


  Phil,
  Saint Thomas of Aquinus believed that angels carry the heavenly hosts 
(planets and stars).  He's probably much closer to the truth than all Ms 
scientists together.  And none of the scientists (called philosophers in those 
days) thought he was a nut.  Do you believe that MS scientists today have a 
better discernment than saint Thomas because they have more knowledge (mixed 
with more lies) today?

  I used to have a computer disk (1,4 M) called : «DANCE OF THE PLANETS» that 
played on Windows 95.  I was able to see the yearly motions of the planets on 
that software.  Their movements look more like a dance: it definitly is not a 
geometrical ellipse for any of the planets.  I can't find that disk anymore and 
when Microsoft went to Windows 97 and the subsequent Windows, my software could 
not play any more.  Perhaps the devil doesn't want men to find out that Maths 
by themselves (without the supervision of philosophy) are unreliable to seek 
the truth.

  Maths give results but they often don't match exacly with reality.  
  Marc V.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: philip madsen
    Sent: 9 août 2007 23:06
    To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Moving Earth deception

    Well Marc, you just shot down my imagery of the geocentric universe 
according to Phul. What power other than supernatural could cause the sun to 
move north and south every year? Seeing as I cant have it locked into some 
aetheric goo. 

    Phil. 
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: marc-veilleux@xxxxxxxxxxxx 
      To: Geocentric 
      Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:28 AM
      Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Moving Earth deception


      The stars that are on the same plane than the Sun are the 12 
constellations known as the zodiac.  Astrolog use them to tell you what the 
devil wants them to.  Those stars as all other stars or other "things" in the 
cosmos ... don't follow the Sun's path (ecliptic).  They remain at their 
respective "right ascension" (latitude) except for tiny movements as aberration 
and parallaxes.
      Marc V.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: philip madsen
        Sent: 9 août 2007 17:04
        To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Moving Earth deception

        Philip,
        If you always looked at the Moon, didn't you ever noticed that it's 
highest point in the sky is variable ??  Just as the Sun is at his highest 
point in summer and it's lowest point in winter, so is it with the Moon and the 
planets: their orbits always stay within the Ecliptic (that is approximatly 23 
degrees south or north of the equator).  Marc.

        Cant say I took much notice Marc, even tho I assumed as much..  however 
..  This is why I asked, did the stars that are on the same plane, also follow 
this annual track.. 

        Philip 
          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: marc-veilleux@xxxxxxxxxxxx 
          To: Geocentric 
          Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:14 PM
          Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Moving Earth deception


          Philip,
          If you always looked at the Moon, didn't you ever noticed that it's 
highest point in the sky is variable ??  Just as the Sun is at his highest 
point in summer and it's lowest point in winter, so is it with the Moon and the 
planets: their orbits always stay within the Ecliptic (that is approximatly 23 
degrees south or north of the equator).  Only the comets can be seen outside of 
the Sun's path.
          Marc V.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: philip madsen
            Sent: 7 août 2007 03:29
            To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
            Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Moving Earth deception

            Philip,
            The sphere of the cosmos doesn't move 23 degrees north and 23 
degrees south (for a total of 46 degrees annually) relative to the Earth !  It 
is the Sun that moves north - south (total of 46 degrees); HC men claim this is 
an illusion caused by the tilted Earth.  So in GS it is against all 
observations to claim that the sphere of the cosmos moves north south (total 46 
degrees) because we don't observe any annual change (north- south) in the 
latitude of the stars except for the very tiny aberration.
            Marc V.   Before I answer, I did not mean what  any angular motion 
which degrees might suggest. I meant that the entire universe annually moved in 
a parallel fashion, what ever else it was doing, from the tropic of cancer to 
the tropic of capricorn and back annualy. Whats that ? A thousand miles back 
and forth per year..  Now here is why I asked the stupid question, 

            Marc, I havn't got a clue what happens.  I have monovision, and I 
cannot tell where the stars are moving, except east to west..  That is why I 
asked Neville if the stars also move north and south with the sun..  somebody 
may have took a time lapse movie??  In 75 years I suppose I would not have 
gazed at the stars or seen them for more than 6 or 7 times, and then passed it 
up after 5 to 10 minutes.. Now the moon, thats different..  I always look at 
the fascinating moon..  sometimes, and I'm not joking, if my dog is in the 
mood, we howl at the full moon together..  I can do a good wolf howl..  

            Why would I do that.?  When very young my mother told me that when 
ever you heard a dog howl, it meant someone had died near by...

            No one believes that today, but it sure gets all the neighbourhood 
dogs howling...  

            Now as far as I can remember I seemed to get the impression that 
the Southern cross, which is the only star system I seeked out, did go south in 
our winter....but of course with such a memory I canna be sure. 

            Now on another subject to all.. while the phads are on vacation. 

            A problem here in this group is, that we never know when someone 
gives a talk, whether they is talking HC or GS. I prefer to talk HC because 
that is what I was tort and understand. When I talk GS I try to make that 
clear. Whenever I look at the sun or moon,  I have always felt as a "real 
feeling" that I am with the ground upon which I stand  moving towards and past 
these objects. Just like the car going past the telegraph pole. ,,, such is the 
power of lifelong indoctrination. The moon  is like a lamp post one is driving 
past.  

            This is why I cannot relate at all to Allen and others who say that 
they see the sun rise towards us, and believe it is the reality.  Oh yes I can 
understand why they think that, if they have not been educated in the basic 
system of heliocentrism taught to them, along with all of the other physical 
sciences that support it. But Allen, in his zeal, no doubt denies observation, 
when he disallows what is observed from a ship at sea in a tidal current, when 
the ship seems to be moving forward through the water, at 15 knots, when in 
reality it is not. 

            Therefore my approach to geocentrism is always as the devils 
advocate, when I debate it here. 

            I see two groups opposed. 

            One group composing of Paul alone, who "feels" reality the same way 
as I did, but who is faithful to that belief beyond reason, subject only to the 
concensus of the world of man, which I am not; and the other group, the rest, 
who feels an opposite reality, and is also faithful to their belief, beyond 
scientific reason, because they are subject to the command of a higher order.

            Now I being also subject to the command of a higher order, accept 
and believe beyond reason a reality that does not conform with what I have 
always seen felt and believed before. I say beyond reason, meaning scientific 
reasoning. 

            From the view of rational science as accepted by the world, even 
though this may be politically manipulated, we of the Gs camp are on the 
defensive. Being so, does not excuse the seemingly uncharitable manner in which 
we often if not always, try to put down Paul's efforts to understand our 
beliefs, and or even dispute them. After all, we all should wonder that he has 
stayed so long listening, to what I would have said not so many long years ago, 
a bunch of silly old people who still believe that the world is flat. 

            Why are the geocentrists here? Each person must examine his own 
reason. 

            I am here for two scientific reasons. One is to gain as much 
knowledge as possible that scientifically supports a geocentric universe, and 
answers or presents flaws in the current HC one that dominates the world. In 
other words I allow for modification or reversal of my own preconceived ideas. 
Once convinced I would  pass this on to my 2000 odd list.  If we do not pass it 
on we are just useless einsteins. 

            The other reason is to make whatever contribution my intellect can 
offer towards our understanding of the physics involved. My first way to do 
this is to seek out and destroy any flaws I perceive in, or objections that 
others might offer against  our case. This is the devils advocate. It is also a 
way that my preconcieved ideas get modified, that is by the reaction it 
creates. 

            I have in my files an enormous amount of information presented by 
Sungenis, Daly , Hertz, De Bouw,  etc, and including the Biblical and church 
side. to boot, both Catholic and Protestant.  None has given to me a 
satisfactory conclusion that answers the scientific problems geocentrism 
provides. Even GWW which I do not have, if it had the answer, could have 
provided it in one simple essay of no more than the length of this post. and if 
presented, the world would have to notice 

            Finally I hope we all do enjoy each others company, pagan or not, 
hoping that all may arrive at perfect truth, the only way to eternal happiness 
for the people of God,  and even temporal satisfaction for the pagans in the 
hope that Grace may make that eternal for them; with that charity demonstrated 
by Jesus Christ, when he associated with sinners. 

            Neville has most assuredly to be admired for his example of 
non-bigotary, in opening the forum to all reasonable discussion of 
sociopolitical and religious discussion, insisting as he has only on charitable 
good manners. 

            I do not pray for anything other than that Gods will be done, but I 
hope it to be done in you all. 



            Philip. 









              ----- Original Message ----- 
              From: marc-veilleux@xxxxxxxxxxxx 
              To: Geocentric 
              Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 12:40 PM
              Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Moving Earth deception


              Philip,
              The sphere of the cosmos doesn't move 23 degrees north and 23 
degrees south (for a total of 46 degrees annually) relative to the Earth !  It 
is the Sun that moves north - south (total of 46 degrees); HC men claim this is 
an illusion caused by the tilted Earth.  So in GS it is against all 
observations to claim that the sphere of the cosmos moves north south (total 46 
degrees) because we don't observe any annual change (north- south) in the 
latitude of the stars except for the very tiny aberration.
              Marc V.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: philip madsen
                Sent: 4 août 2007 17:48
                To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Moving Earth deception

                Walter van der Kamp used such assumed association of stars with 
the Sun to deduce a 58-light-day radius (it may have been 60

                Well yes, I can see why he might have even with the 
complications that might raise.  ..  But may I add some thoughts..  as it 
applies to the celestial poles.. 

                First up, in the GS system the earth is not tilted, but stands 
tall vertical and Proud. The tilt is an invention necessary to explain the 
seasons in the HC universe (no one seems to have mentioned this) 

                In this perspective, with this orientation of the earth, as the 
sphere of the cosmos moves North and South with its annual oscillation, will 
the changing distance change the angle of view (which causes the polar star to 
circle) in the same manner as what we see.  Also Our system does not provide a 
base line for the geometry to measure distance (of the polar star) , as perhaps 
the HC system did.  But maybe the distance travelled vertically as measured 
against the latitudes of the earth, relative to the angle of the cone, as 
viewed from the pole, might give you something to work with..  Trig is tricky 
like that..  in establishing the distance to the polar star. I never did much 
with cones. 

                Phil. 
                  ----- Original Message ----- 
                  From: Neville Jones 
                  To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                  Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 12:41 AM
                  Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Moving Earth deception


                  Philip,

                  Further to my previous answer, and in terms of a scientific 
response, I would add that Walter van der Kamp used such assumed association of 
stars with the Sun to deduce a 58-light-day radius (it may have been 60, I do 
not recall exactly) for the universe. This is based upon the phenomenon of 
yearly aberration.

                  He may well be right. As with the aether, I have not decided 
on which side of this fence to position myself yet.

                  Neville.






                    Philip,

                    I don't know why. It's just a feeling. That's why I placed 
'better' in quotation marks. Not a very scientific answer is it?!

                    Neville.



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