-----Original Message-----
From: pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:42:21 +1000Dear Neville.Its been on the backburner of my mind for a few weeks since we last mentioned eating meat. I realised my response then was rather insensitive, and I intended to clear the air on it more fully.As regards God and the church and the Bible, there is no injunction against using animals as food. We have to presume that Jesus did eat fish.. even though the Bible does not say that He himself did. See how I always get these ideas that show the "Bible only crowd", just how much they need to presume from text.However we cannot be sure.. Everything concerning Jesus in the bible points to his compliance with the old laws and regulations .. Therefore He must have eaten the lambs of the Pash.
This point is now a major difference between us. You see, I view the "Jews" as being just the same today as they were yesterday. Hence, there was no God-ordained pass over, but rather a Jewish pass over. They were not led out of bondage, but were justifiably booted out of Egypt. The pass over lamb is absolutely typically of the Jewish lies and behaviour.
When I see lambs playing here in the fields in spring, I know that God would NEVER seek their destruction by us, but rather looks to us to give them protection.But however again, from reason of scripture, we know that this was not for pleasure or for sustenance , but as a sacrifice. Indeed people sensitive to animals feelings may very much have suffered sacrifice in participating. Cain couldn't and was exiled for his sensitivity. The pash was to prefigure the The True Lamb who was to be sacrificed. Jesus knew this fully, thus I can easily believe the commentator who said that He left the actual killing of the "last Pash" lambs to others.Ok, so yes I did say I love meat and Ham ... very appertising.. and pleasureable, providing I do not have to kill the animal, or participate in its processing. I cannot understand how any human being could be any different. That reminds me of another pleasure, with similar restrictions. SEX. Now from the Catholic perspective, and therefore I say Gods as well, sex is not for pleasure, but to help the primary reason God put man and woman together , the propagation of the species, and thus souls for God. ... Sex outside this commitment and for pleasure alone, is an abomination before God.From this , whilst I repeat we have no injunction on the matter of killing for food, and so long as it might be needed for survival, it would be essential, then it should be done, BUT NOT FOR PLEASURE.All of our natural instincts are against killing anything, without good reason. And food has never been an urgent reason in normal life. Every single protein is available in our vegetable kingdom.. True. The cows give us enough in milk. As long as we bring it briefly to boiling point - it can be lethal otherwise.
I say this truly, when I eat my mince meat rissoles in the meal my wife has prepared tonight, the pleasure I feel will be to me just as guilt ridden as though I was to have illicit sex.. But the pleasure overides everything, doesn't it?On this matter of the animals... Neville may I ask.. Do you spray the flies, ants and cockaroaches? Of course I am fanatical about keeping these from my house, and keep a can of spray in several places.
My wife and I usually sweep up insects and throw them out the door, but on the odd occasion that spray is required then, yes, I would use it.
If we consider bacteria, then the design must have been to create bacteria that would eat other bacteria. This principle must go higher into at least the insects, since they, too, break down organic material and thus play their part in recycling. As to at what stage do we start getting animals, birds, fish that have spirits, I often ponder this question. I know for sure that cats, dogs, elephants, tigers, dolphins, rabbits, ... have spirits, but mice, owls, salmon, ... I don't know.
But I'm convinced these little fullas are just as loving as a cow or a dog or a lion or a crocadile or a snake can be. I once had an up front confrontation on my desk with a little yellow spider no bigger than two pinheads. I can say with absolute certainty that he was aware of me and looked back up the magnifying glass at my eyes, as he fended off the tooth pick I was teasing him with.. I was so impressed, I let him go.. hoping I did not walk on him later, if he was silly enough to get down n the floor.
Yes, good point. We have experienced this ourselves.
Neville.
Philip.
