Philip, It says here that Peter Was NOT The Rock Upon Which the Church is Built: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/catholic_church_is_a_big_hoax.htm Bernie --- On Mon, 11/10/08, philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Indian satellite To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 12:03 AM Neville.. First up, Tobin in australia is a non event.. apart from my emails I would not have known about it. Maybe it got a small mention.. Now to the lie subject and the RC subject, I answer within yours below . Philip. ----- Original Message ----- From: Neville Jones To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:07 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Indian satellite Philip, Yes, you are right. A lie is a lie, irrespective of whether the person telling it is aware of the truth or not. I stand corrected. I did not think you needed correction.. In the context I did not get that impression even on a second read. I was merely trying to differentiate between the objective and subjective sins. (errors). As for the Catholic church, I cannot see where your belief in its God-ordained position comes from. I know that a large chunk of your belief system comes from the Fatima story, but to be undeniable, the link must be obvious to all and everyone surely? Whilst Fatima was an enormous sign meant for the whole world, and even given its suppression laterly by the media or secular world, it was not so always ignored.. Two movies , MGM surprisingly, and the church had some quite spectacular demonstrations with millions of people involved, all media recorded. Today even the Church (obviously Jucontrolled) has closed the subject as finished. I should say, this began with 1960, when the POPE? was supposed to reveal the third secret. We'd been waiting so long for it, and so was the world media. But my belief in its (the Churches ) God-ordained position , does not come from Fatima. As much as all real miracles come from God, in support of His existence and His words, Fatima is just one that cannot escape notice, because of its magnitude, and its recentness in that it was scientifically recorded. So supernatural is it, that whilst the scientists want it under the carpet, the antiCatholics claim it is a manifestation of the Devil. Could the Devil divide the sea for Moses? But there are many miracles to encourage faith.. No , specifically , my belief in the ordination of the institution of the Church comes directly from scripture... This Scripture is straight forward , and so disconcerting to protestants that they need to resort to the Greek in argument to distort what in English is straight forward. I say to them, if the Bible is all you need to know all the truths of God, why is it necessary to call on experts in ancient Greek? I call on the Apostles who have a direct link by ordination (laying of hands) to the apostles of Christ. Who are the more likely to be authorised by God? Ancient Greek scholars, or His apostles. Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. Mathew16-17 And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. 20 Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ. Thats the base scripture for the institution of a church.... there are many more all of which support the ordinations, laying of hands, making bishops , setting up rules and regulations, dogmas, many of which are just as quickly discredited by conflicting scriptures which any Catholic church hating student may chose by his own interpretation to use.. which only goes to prove their undoing. The Bible cannot stand alone as a way to truth//// It helps, but it cannot stand alone... not if it needs Greek scholars, to study non existent original papyrus. Only an Apostle.... Acts 8-29 And the Spirit said to Philip: Go near and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaias. And he said: Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest? 31 Who said: And how can I, unless some man shew me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 34 And the eunuch answering Philip, said: I beseech thee, of whom doth the prophet speak this? Of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip, opening his mouth and beginning at this scripture, preached unto him Jesus. snip.... finis.. On another thread, has there been much reported in Australia on the detention of Fredrick Toben in London? Neville www.realityreviewed.com -----Original Message----- From: pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:51:20 +1000 To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Indian satellite Neville yours gives a technical/moral problem to consider.... A Lie is a lie, meaning an untruth.. But this does not mean the person telling the story is a liar.. the similar problem or error is when people make a judgement of other people in calling them sinners. A person committing a declared sin, is not necessarily a sinner.. Only God can make that call. As a Catholic of course I can qualify that thus, "Only God, or His appointed servant to whom He has delegated that power. " Many people assume that authority to themselves.. without good reason. Therefore in the realm of science, I would consider a Highly qualified scientist such as yourself , as being in equal position to declare another scientist, or even the consensus of many of them , as purveyors of lies, and even being liars, given sufficient evidence and proof. People such as myself and Paul are not so qualified, merely having to decide on where truth lies according to whether we put all our faith in the consensus of the many , which Paul does, or in our faith in those who buck the consensus with an alternative view, which I do as regards geocentrism. I do not doubt that NASA being a political/military entity does, and may even must, put out propaganda that is not true. They LIE . That they can hit the moon or Mars, I do not doubt at all, but The appollo program .... Now that is not so cut and dried... Somebody is lying about the radiation belt, to such an extent that records have been expunged from the history. I can only ask why? Philip. ----- Original Message ----- From: Neville Jones To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 5:59 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Indian satellite Paul, It is technically only a lie if one pronounces it to be fact whilst knowing it to be untruthful. No one here is saying that those scientists, engineers and technicians that designed and built various parts of the mission payload knew that this whole thing is a lie, anymore than those blokes staring at monitors in the NASA control room on 20th July 1969 knew that the whole business was a fraud. Only those at the top know the full picture. Neville www.realityreviewed.com