[geocentrism] Re: [Geocentric] Predestination
- From: "philip madsen" <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 09:12:28 +1000
Robert I saved your post because your answer raised some points to think about..
If we remove the Divine powers of Jesus from the equation, and take into
account that he and the Church requires obedience to the secular Law, "Give
unto caesar.." then may we not take it that Governments rule by Divine right,
and thus have the power to execute.
He would not have given special permission to Pilate, but rather refused to be
superman and interfere with it, simply because Pilate represented the
Government Authority which He recognised and respected, just as he recognised
and respected the authority of the corrupt Church.
2) Only by His own consent could Christ be killed. It was not so much a
consent, but a refusal to offer up any defence. He wanted to make the necessary
sacrifice, and it was predestined that He do it. He could have mounted a
magnificent defence, converting all His enemies including Pilate, and thus
thwarting all of prophecy and mankinds redemption, not counting that such would
have been a defiance of the Father. "Not my will but thine..."
"into thy hands I commend my spirit. And saying this, he gave up the ghost."
This has always raised devious thoughts in my devious mind.. It is related to
why I oppose the term Holy Spirit over Holy Ghost, with reference to the third
person of the Holy Trinity. I know the Latin is spirit, but that is a weakness
of Latin..All living things have a spirit, but only man who is a person has a
soul. Even though the soul is a spirit, it is much more, because it is a
person. Ghost is always synonomous with a person, not a thing, and certainly
not just a spirit. To name the third person of the Trinity "Holy Spirit" does
not inforce the personal nature of Him, requiring the foreknowledge. Whereas
"Holy Ghost" is a complete unambiguous statement re His personage. something
the Latin could not do apparently.
Now to my deviousness. Jesus is the second Person of the Holy Trinity. Before
His incarnation, created flesh, He was a Spirit. also a Ghost. As also the
Father and the Paraclete.
Was this His soul, that was preconceived, of his body? (entirely different to
our soul which comes into existence at conception). If this was so then he was
not natural man, because His soul would be omnipresent. Or did he have a
natural soul generated at conception, which is the ghost 'He gave up' , and an
aditional spirit??? That makes four...counting the three who are one in
Heaven.... 1 + 3 = 4 or 1 + 1 = 2
I warned you...
Philip..
Dear Philip,
I tend to agree with your points, so far as they go. That Jesus was to suffer
an actual death (at the hands of others) is necessary for the vicarious
atonement He secures, but He couldn't die a natural death, and you're right
that His body could undergo no decay, given a solemn promise given in the Old
Testament and repeated in Acts to the effect that God would never let His Holy
One suffer corruption (undergo physical decay). The ability to kill Christ was
given to Pontius Pilate from above, as the Lord warned His captor.
1) The power from "above" is deliberately ambiguous. Pilate had both earthly
power from Rome to execute Jesus, and divine permission - since the Father sent
Him for this purpose.
2) Only by His own consent could Christ be killed.
Luke 23: 46
And Jesus crying out with a loud voice, said: Father, into thy hands I
commend my spirit. And saying this, he gave up the ghost.
Robert
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