[geocentrism] Re: Fw: another victory of Our Lady (through the rosary) in Ar
- From: "philip madsen" <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "geocentrism list" <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:31:03 +1000
"John, please accept that I am not allowed to nor qualified, to speak down to
or preach to you or anyone else. I am obliged to defend the faith, and what
follows is my own appreciation of the Catholic doctrine, which is far from
perfect, as regards the position of the Mother of God. I feel that internal
abuses, and pure hatred of anything Catholic, contributes to a lot of confusion
on this doctrine as well as all the others. This Catholic dogma of Mary forces
me to aim for humility above all else, and I believe that the opposite, PRIDE ,
the prime cause of the rebellion in heaven, has to be the number one sin .. the
worst .. being part of the first commandment of God.... In this I am not always
successful, so I beg your tolerance ...
Philip.
Here is my response.
g'day John.. well I have enough experience to see where you are coming from
with this... but because of your misreading of the text or even possibly their
bad presentation, I will just comment to start with on the first two of your
concerns. You see there have always been among the members of the church
cultists.. who being simple, thats not exclusive to catholics, act with
objective idolatory,,, a sure sin. It is never easy for those in control to
control this one, and the devil has his day. Even Bernadette of Lourdes, as a
poorly educated youngster, before her visions, thought the trinity meant three
gods.
Before I converted to the faith, I insisted on a very precise understanding of
the position of Mary within the hierarchy of the universe, heaven and earth. I
was satisfied with the answers then and still am today.. despite the
denegration of Mary by many in the new church calling itself Catholic, Priests
divided into marian and non marian.. such causes me to allude to them as
"Catholic" and "non catholic" priests.. Allude, not judge ..
If your entire objection is based upon Scripture Alone , with the belief that
there is no teaching Church with ordained ministers on earth established by
Jesus Christ, then it is probable that you will not accept my explanation.. If
your livelihood today depends upon not accepting it, then that will most
certainly make my effort of no help now, but later perhaps.. therefore here
goes.
You said,
"she [Mary] is the highest created expression of God" --- I believe that title
belongs to Jesus. (this one I will leave till second Phil)
Also said,
"Reign of Mary -- Her reign will begin with marvelous days of graces" --- I
believe it's Jesus who is to reign over all.
Of course He does.
In simple logic, the King rules supreme, and Mary accepts and teaches
throughout church teaching, this important distinction , insisting that all
follow her example of total submission to her Son. She has never been presented
as a power over her son, but always a humble submissive tool. the "queen
mother." of a King. Yet we have His example of giving into some particular
types of her wishes here, signifying his acceptance of her concern for human
frailty.
3 And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to him: They have no wine. 4
And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? My hour is not
yet come. 5 His mother saith to the waiters: Whatsoever he shall say to you, do
ye.
Is that a Queen Mother making demands upon her God son. Of course not. Jesus
had the last choice of acting. But also notice, the "what is it .... to thee?
...
a reasonably fair presumption that He cared for and respected His mothers
desires, to act on them, as any son, especially the most perfect would want to
do. And should that change in Heaven, it makes a mockery of the incarnation...
We can deal here with your "in the new age there will be no longer "male" nor
"female" ... how then do we have a Queen?
Can you assert with absolute certainty that this biblical presumption denied
the relationships of mother and son, female and male, in heaven, or does it
simply mean there is no sensual sex and the " given in marriage, husband or
wife?". Everywhere in Scripture God is masculine gender separate from feminine
gender.
34 And Jesus said to them: The children of this world marry and are given in
marriage: 35 But they that shall be accounted worthy of that world and of the
resurrection from the dead shall neither be married nor take wives.
I said "humble submissive tool. " She expressed it here, and every Catholic
should expect it to mean nothing else..
46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord. 47 And my spirit hath rejoiced
in God my Saviour. 48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid:
for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. 49 Because he
that is mighty hath done great things to me: and holy is his name. 50 And his
mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him. 51 He hath
shewed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their
heart. 52 He hath put down the mighty from their seat and hath exalted the
humble. 53 He hath filled the hungry with good things: and the rich he hath
sent empty away.
Now your first statement.
"she [Mary] is the highest created expression of God" --- I believe that title
belongs to Jesus.
It belongs to Mary, as it did in the beginning belong to Eve, before the fall.
I have seen similar, and in the context from the theology that surrounds it,
Mary was Created.... God was not.. And from this Jesus as God is not
considered as created, but incarnated, God man. We believe he was before
Abraham and before Adam. Some commentators see Jesus particularly the Angel to
Sodom, as being Jesus. Does this baffle your scientific comprehension of the
difference between temporal and eternity?
John-58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made,
I AM.
So her position as Queen and the highest created expression of God, does not
place her above God, her Son.
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Roodt
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:26 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Fw: another victory of Our Lady (through the
rosary) in Ar
Impressive video. It is quite significant that the Catholic church has stood
up against error so prominently, and so often. May God remember them for it.
I volunteered at a Convention this weekend, and chatted to a Baptist -- a
very devout one and a man of exemplary character. It made his news all the more
shocking -- their Baptist church has dropped the requirement for Baptism. It's
now recommended, not required. I wonder when they'll drop the name Baptist?
But I saw something else on the "Tradition, Family & Property" website that
shocked me (and reminded me why I am no longer Catholic). It was an article
titled: "The Feast of the Assumption". Here are extracts and my comments:
"she [Mary] is the highest created expression of God" --- I believe that
title belongs to Jesus.
"Reign of Mary -- Her reign will begin with marvelous days of graces" --- I
believe it's Jesus who is to reign over all
"the Holy Trinity crowned her as Queen of Heaven and Earth" -- in the new
age there will be no longer "male" nor "female" ... how then do we have a Queen?
Mary's "assumption into Heaven" was apparently far more glorius than Jesus'.
The "Queen of Heaven" was a goddess from the Babylonian era (if I'm not
mistaken). It seems to me that she has been revived by the Catholics.
I read again how Jesus, in spite of His proper and appropriate respect for
His mother, responded on at least two occasions where:
1. A woman shouted out: "blessed are the breasts that bore you", to which He
replied: "blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it".
2. On another occasion, Jesus was told: "Your Mother and Brothers are
outside..." to which He replied: "My Mother and Brothers are [the faithful]"
Of the born-again movement: I heard that a survey in the USA indicates that
57% of these so-called "Christians" believe that Jesus is not the only way to
God. What!?
Many of them, including Baptists, will also stand up for the Bible and The
Way on many occasions. But sadly this doesn't prevent them from being in
serious error.
Thoughts?
John
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 6:05 AM, Neville Jones <njones@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Marc,
I have played it again, this time with sound.
I disagree about chanting a 'rosary' except to say that it keeps those
chanting or singing focused and increases their awareness and their spirit.
This effect is recognized even in the movie industry (for example, the British
Army being told to sing 'Men of Harlech' at Rorke's Drift, Natal, against the
Zulu armies in the film, 'Zulu', is an interesting psychological observation).
That said, I admire these men and women for their courage and, in
particular, their faith. To stand up and be counted in the face of such
adversity is not easy!
By the way, did you notice the 'Lesbian and teacher' label on one of the
mob? I wonder what she is 'teaching' the children entrusted to her?
Neville
www.realityreviewed.com
-----Original Message-----
From: marc-veilleux@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:53:47 -0400
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Fw: another victory of Our Lady (through the
rosary) in Ar
Dr Neville,
Thank you for your commentaries; unfortunately, since you could not hear
the sounds, you missed the essential part: the 70 catholic youths that
succeeded in stopping the diabolical mob estimated between 10 and 15 thousands
... were praying the rosary without ceasing ! Without the help of Our Lady, it
was humanly impossible to stop such a mob!
Marc
Other related posts:
