To prove it take a camera and spin it at 23.44 degrees subtended to the perpendicular. now spin the camera 365 times on the 23.44 degree axis for every one time that the whole apparatus is rotated 360 degrees .........this will adequately demonstrate the effect and since the observers scale (observers distance from axis of rotation) makes no difference and we would be using actual stars at actual distances there can be no protest of scale...... All is well in the house of the Geocentric Universe.............ahhhhhhhhh......:) Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Not to dispare..you see it does not matter ..why? ..because the nightly moves through 360 degress 365 times for ever 1 anual rotation so the observer is at some point all through out the 365 nights is going to be in rotaion about the anual axis in all 360 degreess ......there will be a star trail but only on the nightly axis everything as stated previously still applies.. and it would all be a big blur.....but we already have that photo available to us.....it is not blured at all by stars tracing out multiple paths simoltaniously... j a <ja_777_aj@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Everybody, I see a potential problem we need to consider in developing the dual axis proof, which potentially could render it unusable. From an A-centric position, basically it is this: On the nightly star trail the observer is moving along the axis of rotation, therefore the view of the axis doesn't change. On the annual star trail the observer is moving along a path that is 23.5 degrees off of the axis of rotation. This means that the observers view of the axis is changing by the same amount that a particular star moves around that axis, therefore negating the motion, making it appear to be motionless. Now if this is true, then to test whether the annual star trail exists, the observer would have to travel north or south by a certain number of degrees for each successive observation such that his path remains on the axis of rotation in question. The problem here is that if we did this we would be reversing the problem and should expect to see an annual trail even if Geo-centrism were the truth because we would be observing based on a created axis. Any axis we create will show what we should expect it to whether AC or GC is the actual truth. What does everyone think? I'm depressed. JA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com