Dear Bernie, Do you remember in one of my earlier e-mails I suggested that one argument at a time be addressed until it is either proved or disproved or, as I believe in this particular augment, is unresolved. As you say concisely below, it helps neither model. Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Brauer To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:51 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Celestial Poles "......the celestial poles argument does not disprove the heliocentric model." N.T.J. 1 ......and the HC ecliptic pole and celestial pole arguments do not disprove the Geocentric model. 2 "......the celestial poles argument does not disprove or prove the heliocentric model." Bernie