Jack L OK. I asked for a science reference not a scientific reference (as you suggested). To further elucidate, a statement of the form offered by Bernie B over the signature of a recognised science community investigator or commentator would suffice. A similar statement in the affirmative as the topic of debate in a recognised scientific journal would suffice. A supportive article from the ubiquitous Wikipedia would suffice. I'd settle for a supportive comment in New Scientist or even -- at a pinch -- Popular Mechanics. I also suggested an atheist reference. I imagine the Humanist Society publishes something -- an article supporting BB's claim here would satisfy my criteria. There must surely be others. A religious reference is not acceptable because that would just be circular reasoning. See also my reply to Philip M. Paul D ----- Original Message ---- From: Jack Lewis <jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, 17 May, 2008 4:20:59 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Atheism is Faith Based - new quote found Paul, I have read it again and my answer still stands. Over to you. Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Deema To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 3:27 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Atheism is Faith Based - new quote found Jack L Read it again Jack, but this time -- carefully. Paul D ----- Original Message ---- From: Jack Lewis <jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, 17 May, 2008 7:35:33 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Atheism is Faith Based - new quote found Paul, Are you serious - a scientific reference? That's the whole problem with your world view, there isnt anything that can be offered as scientific proof for anything connected with origins. There is of course your 'Big Bang' theory but that, apart from being nonsense, is limited. Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Deema To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 6:25 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Atheism is Faith Based - new quote found Bernie B Concerning atheists you said that they say - "The Earth was always just here", which means they are saying it created itself. Do you have an atheist reference for that? Or a science reference? It goes without saying of course, that religious references would not be accepted as valid. Paul D ----- Original Message ---- From: Bernie Brauer <bbrauer777@xxxxxxxxx> To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, 16 May, 2008 7:17:01 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Atheism is Faith Based - new quote found Jack, That's all there is. It turns out that Atheists believe in "magic" too. They will say that, "The Earth was always just here", which means they are saying it created itself. Also it turns out they have a moral code ( commandments ) too. If you ask them if it's okay to harm one of their children for no reason, they will answer that that would be wrong and should be punished. They have faith in each person to draw up a total of 6 billion moral codes and have the world live in harmony. Bernie Jack Lewis <jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Berrnie, Is this all or shoud there be more to this e-mail? Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Brauer To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 7:40 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Atheism is Faith Based - new quote found "Atheism is faith based. God is reason and science. 'THEY' reverse everything. " ________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1445 - Release Date: 15/05/2008 19:25 ________________________________ Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. ________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1445 - Release Date: 15/05/2008 19:25 ________________________________ Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. ________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1448 - Release Date: 16/05/2008 19:42 Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. www.yahoo7.com.au/y7mail