[geocentrism] Re: An off subject subject.
- From: "philip madsen" <joyphil@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:43:05 +1000
I think that what you said here Marc is very revealing to me at least.. It
made me think! Thank you.
If God was going to do a stupendous miracle of the sort described in Scripture,
stopping the sun and the moon, the stars do not get mentioned, which we call a
supernatural event, get that word,, supernatural event, of what need does
He to comply with nature.. When He brought Lazarus from the grave, Lazarus was
already corrupting. he stinketh....
One would deny Gods omnipotence by insisting that he comply with our limited
knowledge of the philiosophy of science , especially that type of science which
is accepted by the world who deny Him. That is the failure of the "wanna be"
Christians who caved in on creation and talk of Intelligent design evolution.
Philip
John 36 The Jews therefore said: Behold how he loved him. 37 But some of them
said: Could not he that opened the eyes of the man born blind have caused that
this man should not die? 38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself, cometh
to the sepulchre. Now it was a cave; and a stone was laid over it. 39 Jesus
saith: Take away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith to
him: Lord, by this time he stinketh, for he is now of four days. 40 Jesus saith
to her: Did not I say to thee that if thou believe, thou shalt see the glory of
God? 41 They took therefore the stone away. And Jesus lifting up his eyes,
said: Father, I give thee thanks that thou hast heard me. 42 And I knew that
thou hearest me always: but because of the people who stand about have I said
it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me. 43 When he had said these
things, he cried with a loud voice: Lazarus, come forth. 44 And presently he
that had been dead came forth, bound feet and hands with winding bands. And his
face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus said to them: Loose him and let him
go.
----- Original Message -----
From: marc-veilleux@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To: Geocentric
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 3:34 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: An off subject subject.
Dr Neville wrote:
«...Stopping the World just does not account for this claimed event, because
the Moon would continue to move in this scenario. It would not stay still. (In
fact it would go faster - and in the opposite direction - something that would
perhaps have been even more noteworthy!!).»
As R.G. Elmendorf used to say: « this heliocentrism versus geocentrism is a
mind buggling problem!»
In the heliocentric scenario, the Moon moves eastward around 9 degrees daily
(but we observe a westward motion of around 351 degrees daily); so (in the HC
scenario) if the Earth would stop moving (rotating and revolving) the Moon
would still moves only around 9 degrees daily; so this motion would not be very
significant since it would be an angular motion of 4½ degrees for a period of
12 hours.
Since Josue needed an extension of daylight in order to destroy the ennemies
of the Israelites, the real question we should ask is : why stop the Moon
also?? Stopping the Sun only should be enough!!
It seems that a possible reason was not disrupt the natural cycle of the team
Sun/Moon (but this reason only applies to a geocentric universe because in an
heliocentric universe the team Earth/Moon can't claim to be so important!
Marc V.
----- Original Message -----
From: Neville Jones
Sent: 24 juillet 2007 10:01
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: An off subject subject.
Philip,
Peter Dimond obviously believes that all scripture is inspired. Hence, his
position can be seen to fall apart immediately from the following:
Josue 10:12-13 - "Then Josue spoke to the Lord, in the day that he
delivered the Amorrhite in the sight of the children of Israel, and he said
before them:
Move not, O sun, toward Gabaon, nor thou, O moon, toward the valley of
Ajalon. And the sun and the moon stood still, till the people revenged
themselves of their enemies. Is not this written in the book of the just? So
the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down the space
of one day."
Everyone who was present at this miracle would have seen the same thing
according to external appearances: the sun and the moon stood still and did not
go down. But, as Pope Leo XIII emphasizes, in accurately reporting this miracle
and what occurred according to external phenomena, they did not "seek to
penetrate the secrets of nature"; that is to say, the sacred books didn't seek
or intend in this area to explain whether this external appearance was because
the sun actually stood still or was created because the Earth actually did.
Even today astronomers will speak of the sunrise at Philadelphia.
Thus, even if the geocentric view of the universe is not correct, these
passages of the Bible do not in any way detract from the power, the historical
truth, or the accuracy of Sacred Scripture in all aspects of its teaching; for
what is recorded is exactly what was observed according to external phenomena
(as a result of a miracle of God), without penetrating into the reasons for the
creation of these external phenomena.
As I have tried to show here (and in Guided Tours) many times, this passage
can only be accounted for in a geostationary universe. Stopping the World just
does not account for this claimed event, because the Moon would continue to
move in this scenario. It would not stay still. (In fact it would go faster -
and in the opposite direction - something that would perhaps have been even
more noteworthy!!).
Neville.
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