[geocentrism] Re: Aether effects
- From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:12:16 -0700 (PDT)
1. I meant EMR. Electromagnetic radiation)....... EMP is Electromagnetic pulse
2. "vibrations are a physical phenomenon. of vibrating matter. Show me where
or how to measure the vibrations of gravity ??? Light is a vibration .....
that moves through the very Medium under discussion if you mean has physical
effects well gravity is a physical effect so is lights effects on matter...now
take sound it is a vibration though air water metal or any medium capable of
carrying its frequency...sound is not a actually physical anything it is only a
wave form ?..
3. Gravity is a vibration in the aether for all the reasons previously
discussed ..in short there is only one demonstratable & or reproducible
demonstration of the nature of gravity and its effects?..
If the aether is as dense as suspected and I believe that it is, due to the
necessity for it to traverse ~instantaneously across the universe. It must be a
very long wave form ( also long wave forms go further and do more pushing)?now
ordinary mater has a entirely different density then the aether does therefore
the range of frequencies that can be carried by the two are not all the same.
The aether being so dense can cary wave forms that cannot be carried by
ordinary matter because the frequencies would be to small for matter to
perceive directly or the frequencies would be too large for ordinary matter to
measure such as the gravity wave which must be a very long wave form perhaps as
large a half the size of the universe itself. No instrument of ordinary mater
would be able to measure a wave form 7 billion light years long, although
matter would feel/ be subject to its effect ..obviously.. Go bac to the sound
board and sand. The waves used to produce some of the
paterns were far larger then the objects on the board You could not physicaly
measure a wave whos dimentions were 2X as large as the sun?but feeling the
effect is not the same a measuring it. Although, you can measure the effect you
cant measure the wave itself directly. It is way too large ..I also suggest a
very large wave form for gravity due to the fact that larger wave forms travel
further and push harder then shorter wave forms? since ordinary mater is of
less density and different material the frequency rage for the aether and
ordinary matter is not all the same. However, there must be overlap. It is that
overlap that enables interaction between the two?.
4. You cannot call an alternating electrical current a vibration except by
way of analogy.. You can convert it to vibrations through a suitable
transducer.. I am not talking solely about the frequency of the current ie
60HZ?.. I am talking about the frequency that the electrons themselves are
vibrating and moving in when they are in a ?free flow? verse a non flow state
Carrying the thought process forward from my last post about how matter can
move through a dense medium........Now the kicker...... what if the frequency
for all motion is the same frequency as the one for gravity the only difference
is 1.origin ( non universal & or symmetrical as compared to gravity ) 2.focus
(ie laser v light bulb), 3.intensity (strength the force required to bring it
to full stop) ???Why not?..If you did not stop the motion it would go all the
way to the end of the universe (Inertia)?..If gravity is a function of matter
in the vibrating aether, then why couldn?t matter produce that same wave form
since in AVGM the wave form must interact with matter to yield the observable
effect of gravity ..might it not work visa versa??..perhaps this long wave form
is the perfect overlapped frequency for both ordinary matter and aether. In
that way motion of one would affect the other in perfect or almost perfect
synchronicity. what we measrue i spin is the slight
deviation from perfect syncronisity, where all other frequencies would be
far more limited in their ability to traverse back and forth between matter and
aether and aether to matter..... The gravitational wave is the same as the one
for motion. This is the only truly nearly perfectly synchronous frequency
between matter and the aether............?
Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: We all seem to have this
difficulty in trying to explain how matter can move throughout the aether. But
I think we have it all backwards again. I would argue that motion of any kind
is it self a vibration that utilizes the aether as its medium for propagation
... The question should not be how can matter move through the aether. But,
rather what is the necessary frequency for ordinary matter to allow for
movement within the aether?. This would explain inertia in more detail give it
a physical reaction of the frequency of motion to the medium of aether?just as
in the case of Light and EMP and other wave forms that utilize the aether as a
medium the frequency will determine the speed and the distance that the wave
form can travel ..now light is restricted by speed but also distance a s
function of intensity? where the frequency of motion would be allowed to travel
the whole distance of the aether medium but the speed is
determined by the intensity of the wave form that created the motion? ..in
this way the appearance of inertia is obtained where any body in motion will
remain in motion until either
it reaches the outer boundary of the aether or
B. it is acted upon by a equal or greater force?
It is not "How things could move through the aether of such density?" but
rather "How could anything move at all wihout such a dense medium to allow for
motion"
There I go again attempting to redefine all of physics bad allen.. BAD
ALLEN!?J
Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: All EMP are vibrations and
the magnetic force lines too resonate just as sound is a vibration through air
EMP and all other magnetic force lines are vibrations ..just like gravity is a
vibration the only difference between them is the frequencies and what enables
all those various ranges of frequencies to form and propagate some so small
ordinary mater cannot interact directly with (wavelength shorter then any
ordinary mater) and so large ordinary mater cannot detect directly (wavelength
larger then any ordinary mater) ...........is I would argue the aether...and
although ordinary Hydrogen cannot perceive these vibrations directly, these
vibrations still affect ordinary maters interactions with other mater as well
as the various forms of energy. That is why the energy capacity in the Aether
although infinitely greater then the energy stored in ordinary matter does not
achieve equilibrium because the frequency range and the
degree to which that transmission of energy in those frequencies is limited.
Certain frequencies allow for motion while others allow for electromagnetic
effects while yet others preclude the possibility of thermal equilibrium even
though there is a energy leak/manifestation of 3.5degreesK in the background
radiation which it self propagates at a given frequency range.. Regardless of
how hot the aether is you can only see 3.5degreesK. of it which when you thing
about it further demonstrates the extremely low efficiency of energy
transmission from aether to matter assuming that the 3.5 degrees is not just
the amount of heat energy that is transported in the aether but actually
represents some of the energy of the aether?.?
philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Allen I should have
explained it better. To understand light propagation , I prefer to use radio
because the longer wavelength, and the antenna elements are more practical to
examine.
You know what I mean if I said that if a unit North pole were placed near to
a North magnetic pole it would be repelled away even through a vacuum. (it has
nowhere else to go)
In the case of radio EMR the transmitting element produces a sequence (at the
given frequency) of electrically and magnetically polarised "envelopes" . which
are aligned with "like" polarities opposing , which as a result repell each
other away from the antennae. these have no weight, hence the speed of
propagation is at the speed of light. Why this limitation is another subject,
our aether, and not involved in this current explanation.
So I meant that because of the law of like poles repel, the generated
envelopes of electromagnetic energy as electrical and magnetic lines of force
in quadrature have nowhere else to go but be repelled away from the continueing
successive like polarity envelopes and from the antenna itself. As these
envelopes of force move further away from the centre, they have to stretch ..
This is the action which mathmatically gives us the inverse square law. The
fields are contiguous, and contradicts any idea of a corpuscle or particle
So that is why I said it can only go one way and that is away from the
source. and by way of explaining that this could happen without the need for
any hypothetical fluid medium.
This still leaves us with the need to explain how force acts through
(supposedly) empty space.. to which I offered elsewhere, IT IS NOT REALLY EMPTY.
The antiaetherans try to say that the field is itself an entity.. This I
reject as pure supposition. The field is a ficticious entity used to explain
the action of a force. Lines of force are graphical representation of this
action. I expect that to be understood in my explanation above, lest I be seen
to contradict myself.
On an aside, you said,
If it has nowhere to go it might not go anywhere just as sound dose not
travel in a vacuum my voice would have no where to go and thus it would go
nowhere.
Sound is a ficticious word.. It is a subjective thing like sight.. It is the
biological animals reaction as hearing of a vibration. But the nature of
physical vibration cannot be anything but analogously compared to
electromagnetic cycles, which cannot be technically called a vibration. If the
vibration of your voice was converted into electrical cycles, it would indeed
be propagated in a vacuum.
This is the reason why there are regulations controlling the audio power in
the hearing aid loops of theatres and buildings. Why ? because they can
interfere with radio reception in aircraft that may be overhead...
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Daves
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 1:37 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Aether effects
Comments in blue
(p)"EMR propagates because it has nowhere to go but away from its source. Its
exactly like two like poles trying to occupy the same space. It is self
propagating. Its wave like properties, is due to the nature of the two fields
of which it is composed.. they stretch."
1. If it has nowhere to go it might not go anywhere just as sound dose not
travel in a vacuum my voice would have no where to go and thus it would go
nowhere.
2.Experiments demonstrate something that has properties doing something that
makes it hard to write it off as just nothing.
3. Scripture plainly outlines a Something out there that every thing out
there is imbedded into...
philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Martin, first up I
want to say that I have the utmost respect for you, as I have come to
experience your written word. Whilst I may not accept all that you teach, or
say, you have been a cause in re-igniting my curiosity to learn and venture in
new directions of all philosophy in science. I admire your command of the
language. Thus it is in the spirit of learning and of my ignorance, that I make
the following comment.
You seem to be trying very hard to make the aether fit with some quantistic
theory to make it conform with the ancient hypothesis of the aether being a
hypothetical medium/fluid with properties that are due to a special type of
material ..Why are you opposed to the idea that it does not have to be a
material substance at all, and that wave propagation "through" it is due to an
entirely different and new concept. I said "through" in quotation marks
because I dispense with the term medium.
EMR propagates because it has nowhere to go but away from its source. Its
exacly like two like poles trying to occupy the same space. It is self
propagating. Its wave like properties, is due to the nature of the two fields
of which it is composed.. they stretch.
OK yes I know you were about inertia and momentum, not EMR but,
Why does "aether" have to be a special material with a new and special
viscosity, that applies differently to matter at constant velocity to that
which has acceleration?
Last time I heard viscosity is a property inherent to a fluid.
You seem to be trying to invent a fluid (via quantum mechanics) with
discretionary properties as regards inertia, which to my mind means it is not a
fluid at all. At the practical level for the purpose of trying to prove a
fluids existence perhaps that makes for a possible hypotheses, but maybe
unnecessarily so.
Somehow it seems to me that we must get back to basics from scripture when
trying to reason out how a geocentric universe can rotate with an aetheric
firmament. To venture into using quantum theory to explain it appears to me to
be no different to those creation scientists who try to justify evolution as
intelligent design, on the one hand and on the other try to prove the universe
is new , of only 7000 years or so old..
This latter way of thinking is of the Devil, at worst, or a weakness of faith
at best, because it denies the omnipotent God as having the power to create a
natural world. A world that would need in the natural order of science at least
millions of years to have developed IF He had so desired to do it that way. BUT
God tells us specifically that He side stepped all of that developement and
created the world in six days, and it was an aged universe that he created,
with light shining from stars that were light years away.. Yes for the
unimaginative among you I say, he put in place in an instant the stars, with
rays of light that were light years long, to shine on the earth in that day.
This probably was the only time ever, when light was made to travel at infinite
speed.
Likewise He said , and I know I am being repetitive, "Before Abram was I AM.
"
To me that explains the aether, or else I am truly nuts.
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin G. Selbrede
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 8:51 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Aether effects
On Apr 24, 2007, at 5:21 PM, Dr. Neville Jones wrote:
If maximons DO couple with matter:
My original point was that if material objects are carried along by a
rotating aether (such that net kinetic energy imparted is zero, as you state),
then there must be a noticeable effect when those objects travel through, or
against, this aether (even allowing for Allen's novel suggestion of currents
within the aether), for then the flux must produce far more maximons "pushing
against" our material object.
This was what Markov was countering in regard to a liquid composed of
maximons. This liquid has the intriguing property of having zero viscosity with
regard to constant velocities, but non-zero viscosity in reaction to objects
with changing velocities. (Again, I personally don't hold to either a LeSagean
gas or a Markov liquid, but the extreme density form of these two models, where
the mean free path constrains the underlying aetherons -- of whatever
construction -- to stay localized near their current lattice positions due to
crowding from their neighbors. The net flux through any material object is
always zero: aether flux is conserved in this model, although the Bouw/Hanson
approach to LeSage does not conserve flux since it treats matter as shielding
that flux, rather than considering that matter shields acoustic pressure
transmitted through the lattice. The effects are identical in either case, but
with the rarefied aethers incumbent upon LeSage gas protagonists to
support, there is no clear identification of the Planck Density with any
element of the current universe at the subquantum domain. If these connections
have been since established, I've not seen them reported.)
If maximons DO NOT couple with matter:
How would such an aether carry any material object along within itself?
I think I mentioned this already, that inertial drag is to matter in the aether
as Fresnel drag is to light rays in glass.
I think in all fairness, Neville, your task is complicated because every
person here on the forum has a completely different idea of what the aether is
and how it should behave. So, interacting with Allen may or may not translate
to an adequate response to Martin, or to Phil. You've got five blind men and
an elephant, in effect. Your challenge, then, is to not tar with too broad a
brush, but since knowledge of another person's views comes in to you piece-meal
(usually by way of the person objecting to your criticisms), you've got
something akin to vague, moving targets with poorly-defined outlines. So, I'm
sympathetic with the challenges of pinning us aether guys down. It's like the
old saw that if you have five economists, you'll have six opinions.
Martin
P.S. This reminds me of a comedian's commentary about all the out-of-focus
photos of the legendary Bigfoot here in North America: "Bigfoot IS blurry.
He's a creature with soft edges running around in the wilderness -- you can't
get a sharp photograph of him." So it is with the aether theorists. The best
you can do is pin one down at a time and figure out what his particular conceit
is. That's just the nature of the beast. No pun intended.
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