[geocentrism] Re: Abolish usury
- From: "philip madsen" <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:23:54 +1000
And Allen, that 10% floats up to many times that when they want to finance a
war, or some other wasted product. And they do not worry about "balancing" with
production.
There is nothing wrong with creating money, only that this job, rightfully
belongs to the State or Crown, and it should not be as a debt, to private
business, but merely at the cost of production, the press the paper and the
ink.... and when its credit in a computer even that becomes even negligible ,
a billion costs the same as 100 ...
I think this is the real reason we declared war on Hitler and the Nazi's. They
took back control of the issuance of credit.. Thats when the Jews declared war
on Germany, long before the start of world war 2. Japan likewise, had begun to
adopt Social Credit financing. at the same time.. Australia 1936-39 was
having royal commissions into Banking, as were many other countries. That
commission stated quite plainly that debt finance created money out of thin
air, and that Banks DID NOT LEND ITS DEPOSITS.... We nearly got our
governments and countries back then, but the war stopped everything , all got
forgotten. Exactly according to the Protocols... right on the mark...
philip
----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Daves
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 7:47 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Abolish usury
just a quick note not for or against but banks are allowed to lend 10 times
more money then they have on hand.......the whole concept of lending only the
money that banks have on hand ...is a falicy that went the way of the Gold
standard.....
----- Original Message ----
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 2:31:29 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Abolish usury
Addendum Paul.. In the case of real money lent, such as I dig in my pocket
and lend you 1000. If I charge you 5% or the equivalent of inflation over the
term of the loan, plus admin costs that would not be usury.. But if I charged
you say 20% flat.. That would be usury.. But if I printed a perfect 1000
dollars in new notes, and lent them to you at 20 % that would be theivery.
And that is what banks do, especially the credit (debt) cards.. And all loans
to Government..
Youve had plenty of time and space to check it out.. You won't bother.. Its
just too hard for you.
Philip..
----- Original Message -----
From: philip madsen
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 6:21 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Abolish usury
Funny Paul, how you took the least important point in my post to question..
Of course I do argue, with your statements here as technically incomplete.
Usury is generally referred to as excessive interest, not the fair interest
that could be charged for administrative costs of the loan.. The cost of the
production of the money. paper and ink and the printer..
Money creation should not exceed the goods poduced.. This why we insist
upon a national balance sheet. and an independent body of the Government to
administer it, free of any private banking or international banking control..
The important points of money creation being in private hands you either
missed(blinkered) or worse avoided.
All the money currently printed, ALL, is created by private individuals as
a debt, as though it was real cash or gold..
The cash printed, is the petty cash of the nation, and not even 0.5% of the
total money supply, properly called credit.. or entries in a ledger..
If all the debt money in the world owed by all governments and people to
these thieves, were converted into gold at current prices, it would require a
lump of gold so much bigger than planet earth, it would reach almost to the
sun, last calculated in 1960 that I remember.. Nothing has changed.. ..
Philip.
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Deema
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 11:18 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Abolish usury
Philip M
My quick definitions -
usury -- charging interest on money borrowed;
inflation -- money supply increasing at a rate greater than man-hours
spent in productive labour.
Do you argue with this?
Paul D
----- Original Message ----
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, 17 May, 2008 10:45:20 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Abolish usury
This is the one that Paul should read and try to comprehend.. He like
many is bery much blinkered when it comes to this money scam conspiracy...
the key words were, then and still today,
Objecting to the fact that the Government planned, as usual, to raise
the money by issuing bonds which would be bought by the banking and
non-banking sector -- which would then have to be paid back with money
raised from taxes, and with interest added -- they proposed instead that
the Government simply create the currency it required and spend it into
society through this public project......
Edison said,
"Now, that is what Henry Ford wants to prevent. He thinks it is stupid,
and so do I, that for the loan of $30,000,000 of their own money the
people of the United States should be compelled to pay $66,000,000 --
that is what it amounts to, with interest. People who will not turn a
shovelful of dirt nor contribute a pound of material will collect more
money from the United States than will the people who supply the
material and do the work. That is the terrible thing about interest.
Edison.
The scam is the reply: That to print money will increase inflation..
Perhaps, if there was too much money.. But so will the money printed by the
Banks, also created out of nothing. Its just that our way is free the banks
way is usury..
The other lie scam is that the Banks lend their deposits.. ABSOLUTE
RUBBISH, AND NOT EVEN ADMITTED TODAY..
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Neville Jones
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:22 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Abolish usury
Just received the following e-mail that I thought was well worth
posting to the group:
In December 1921, the American industrialist Henry Ford and the inventor
Thomas Edison visited the Muscle Shoals nitrate and water power projects
near Florence, Alabama. They used the opportunity to articulate at
length upon their alternative money theories, which were published in 2
reports which appeared in The New York Times on December 4, 1921 and
December 6, 1921.
Objecting to the fact that the Government planned, as usual, to raise
the money by issuing bonds which would be bought by the banking and
non-banking sector -- which would then have to be paid back with money
raised from taxes, and with interest added -- they proposed instead that
the Government simply create the currency it required and spend it into
society through this public project.
This is also the Prosperity proposal.
Thomas Edison made it plain in the following excerpt from The New York
Times, December 6, 1921 issue ("Ford Sees Wealth In Muscle Shoals").
Here, the reporter is quoting Edison:
"That is to say, under the old way any time we wish to add to the
national wealth we are compelled to add to the national debt.
"Now, that is what Henry Ford wants to prevent. He thinks it is stupid,
and so do I, that for the loan of $30,000,000 of their own money the
people of the United States should be compelled to pay $66,000,000 --
that is what it amounts to, with interest. People who will not turn a
shovelful of dirt nor contribute a pound of material will collect more
money from the United States than will the people who supply the
material and do the work. That is the terrible thing about interest.
In all our great bond issues the interest is always greater than the
principal. All of the great public works cost more than twice the actual
cost, on that account. Under the present system of doing business we
simply add 120 to 150 per cent, to the stated cost.
"But here is the point: If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can
issue a dollar bill. The element that makes the bond good makes the bill
good. The difference between the bond and the bill is that the bond lets
the money brokers collect twice the amount of the bond and an additional
20 per cent, whereas the currency pays nobody but those who directly
contribute to Muscle Shoals in some useful way.
" ... if the Government issues currency, it provides itself with enough
money to increase the national wealth at Muscles Shoals without
disturbing the business of the rest of the country. And in doing this it
increases its income without adding a penny to its debt.
"It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30,000,000 in bonds and
not $30,000,000 in currency. Both are promises to pay; but one promise
fattens the usurer, and the other helps the people.
If the currency issued by the Government were no good, then the bonds
issued would be no good either.
It is a terrible situation when the Government, to increase the national
wealth, must go into debt and submit to ruinous interest charges at the
hands of men who control the fictitious values of gold.
"Look at it another way. If the Government issues bonds, the brokers
will sell them. The bonds will be negotiable; they will be considered as
gilt edged paper. Why? Because the government is behind them, but who is
behind the Government? The people. Therefore it is the people who
constitute the basis of Government credit.
Why then cannot the people have the benefit of their own gilt-edged
credit
by receiving non-interest bearing currency on Muscle Shoals, instead of
the bankers receiving the benefit of the people's credit in
interest-bearing bonds?"
Essential Further Reading: PROSPERITY: Freedom from Debt Slavery is a
4-page quarterly Journal which campaigns for publicly-created debt-free
money.
PROSPERITY is edited and published by Alistair McConnachie and a
4-issue subscription is available for £10 payable to PROSPERITY at
268 Bath Street, Glasgow, Scotland, UK, G2 4JR.
Tel: 0141 332 2214;
Fax: 0141 353 6900,
Email: contactus AT ProsperityUK DOT com
http://www.ProsperityUK.com
All back-issues are still available.
<http://www.prosperityuk.com/prosperity/subs/subscribe.html>
The 40-page Report, Clarifying our Money Reform Proposals, launched at
the 2006 Bromsgrove Conference, is available for £10 payable to
PROSPERITY and is essential reading for beginners.
The Grip of Death: A study of modern money, debt slavery and destructive
economics by Michael Rowbotham, [Jon Carpenter Publishing, 1998] and
Goodbye America! Globalisation, debt and the dollar empire by Michael
Rowbotham, [Jon Carpenter Publishing, 2000] and Creating New Money: A
monetary reform for the information age by Joseph Huber and James
Robertson [New Economics Foundation, 2000] are all available from
PROSPERITY.
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