[geocentrism] Re: A CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT
- From: "philip madsen" <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:15:01 +1000
Peter said,
Adam was told he would die in the "day" of eating from the tree, as we know, he
didnt die within 24 hours, but he did die within one of Gods days.
But God uses this word death with two different meanings very often in
scripture.. Death Spiritually , death as physically, and a third, death lost
to Hell for ever.. "Let the dead bury their own dead" remember... But Adam
would have had to die eventually, else he was not meant for Heaven....
And then take what Jesus said on the cross , "this day thou shalt be with me in
Paradise? " This did not mean Heaven .. Jesus ascended not there for many
days yet.
Phil.
----- Original Message -----
From: PETER CHARLTON
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:20 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: A CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT
2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the
Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Adam was told he would die in the "day" of eating from the tree, as we know,
he didnt die within 24 hours, but he did die within one of Gods days.
So far, we can see the first 6 days amounting to 6000 years.
There is a scripture, I cannot remember where, which tells us we are still in
Gods day of rest, that day will end at the end of Jesus 1000 year reign,
roughly speaking, that shows Gods 7th day, his day of rest, to be 7000 years,
we can therefore assume, each of Gods creation days to be likewise, 7000 years,
that makes the 6 day week of creation, 42,000 years.
Pete Charlton
----- Original Message -----
From: philip madsen
To: geocentrism list
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 11:58 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] A CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT
The majority of us here are essentially fundamentalist believers in
scripture as it is writ.. This is why we are geocentrist. But as I re-examine
genesis, I think we tend to gloss over almost maybe with embarrassment some
anomalies, to the point of dishonesty perhaps.. I decided to raise some
questions with a mini Bible study of the first Chapter, from the scientific
angle...I printed the complete first chapter here, but will just have a
critique of the first few verses today, with a view to developing a subject..
There is much inconsistency...Its not consistent with basic science, or even
literal accuracy.. It seems I am making a great case here for the six days as
being a myth, leaving open the argument of creation being either instantaneous,
or evolutionary.. and I much more prefer the former.
1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. Is this the authors
introduction of the whole process, or is it a statement of the beginning of the
first day? We are forced by context to assume the latter. He created Heaven and
Earth.. Can it be heaven as where the angels existed.. Then Earth becomes a
term for the physical world. space. a place not an object. because this next,
2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the
deep. And the spirit of God moved over the waters. We have big problems here..
The author seems to be talking about a planet which has deep seas.. If so then
verse one changes back to a more physical statement of "he created the heavens
as in sky , and a world called earth.." The world is void and empty! What is
meant by void here? and empty? A vessel can be empty.. Void means the
absence of everything. Immediately following , is mentioned the face of the
deep, which to me is talking about the surface of a deep sea. If this is so,
then the Earth is niether empty nor void.. Can we assume he is saying that the
planet has land which is empty and void, and a sea , Almost as though it was
poetry.. the darkness over the sea, must be over everything. Just as the
spirit moved over everything. Why the poetry...? Only poetic people, a
minority even, could take to this .. That is exclusivity...
3 And God said: Be light made. And light was made. Light is a concept that
can only exist for sentient eyes. This verse is completely unsound much less
unscientific. Thus the word could have been stating a concept , rather than any
created thing. Likewise these next verses,
4 And God saw the light that it was good; and he divided the light from the
darkness. 5 And he called the light Day, and darkness Night. And there was
evening and morning one day. None of this could have happened, because it is
merely a symbolic discription of night and day.. A very primitive discription
that one would expect from a savage who knew nothing of the science of
cosmology. Its almost caveman science. What is more, it describes Day and night
before the creation of the sun. So it is not a creation at all so far, but
just an idea for the first day.
6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it
divide the waters from the waters. As we have shown it to be almost absolute
that these verses are poetic descriptions, so far, then we have no reason to
doubt it is so for the entire week of verses. As primitives know there is rain,
from above, and rivers and seas below, so we can have a sky, a simple meaning
for firmament, which is between the two waters.. This is more caveman science.
7 And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the
firmament, from those that were above the firmament. And it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and morning were the
second day. so here we have an affirmation that the first verse above was
really an introduction to all of the week of days. Heaven is the sky. The sky
is what is seen. It s a canopy, (firmament) It has no depth. A caveman would
expect this to hold the rain up ..
9 God also said: Let the waters that are under the heaven, be gathered
together into one place, and let the dry land appear. And it was so done. So we
are given an explanation of verse 2 that the globe was all water above the
land.. Think of the massive geological upheavals to cause this shift of land ,
as islands are still created today. so the "deep" got deeper.. A bit like
the reverse of the flood.
10 And God called the dry land Earth: and the gathering together of the
waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. Now this is a great
contradiction! The seas are no longer the earth.. And what happened to that
other earth in Verse 2 that was void and empty. And I think this is enough
stirring of the pot for today as the rest of this day we are given to believe
all the trees and plants are growing fine, we have night and day, , and this is
only the third day, and the sun has not yet been made???
11 And he said: Let the earth bring forth the green herb, and such as may
seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after its kind, which may have seed in
itself upon the earth. And it was so done.
12 And the earth brought forth the green herb, and such as yieldeth seed
according to its kind, and the tree that beareth fruit, having seed each one
according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said: Let there be lights made in the firmament of heaven, to
divide the day and the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and
for days and years:
15 To shine in the firmament of heaven, and to give light upon the earth.
And it was so done.
16 And God made two great lights: a greater light to rule the day; and a
lesser light to rule the night; and the stars. 17 And he set them in the
firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth.
18 And to rule the day and the night, and to divide the light and the
darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and morning were the
fourth day.
20 God also said: Let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having
life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the firmament of heaven.
21 And God created the great whales, and every living and moving creature,
which the waters brought forth, according to their kinds, and every winged fowl
according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
22 And he blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the waters
of the sea; and let the birds be multiplied upon the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind,
cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds.
And it was so done.
25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, and
cattle, and every thing that creepeth on the earth after its kind. And God saw
that it was good.
26 And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness; and let him have
dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts,
and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth.
27 And God created man to his own image; to the image of God he created
him. Male and female he created them.
28 And God blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth,
and subdue it, and rule over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air,
and all living creatures that move upon the earth.
29 And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the
earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your
meat:
30 And to all beasts of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to all
that move upon the earth, and wherein there is life, that they may have to feed
upon. And it was so done.
31 And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good.
And the evening and morning were the sixth day.
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