Neville J On reading this reply, I noticed that I am guilty of an omission. I've inserted the item in <colour> below. The term 'coexist' could perhaps have been better rendered by the expression 'be reconciled'. It must have been late! Paul D ----- Original Message ---- From: Neville Jones <njones@xxxxxxxxx> To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, 21 November, 2007 2:52:54 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: 2 Axes of rotation - drawing Paul, In red: -----Original Message----- From: paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:27:45 +0000 (GMT) May I advance a point or two in defence of my position? Of course you may. As I remarked in another post to Allen D, all the planets, asteroids and moons of the Solar System have their own unique axes of rotation and their planes of revolution with their attendant poles. Okay. Many of these bodies are observable with sufficient definition to permit fairly precise numbers to be assigned to these axes and planes. Okay. This permits us to determine what would be the appearance of the stars and their motions as viewed from the perspective of these various bodies. And this is why I say your line is irrelevant, because not only would this be very difficult, but also it would be unverifiable at the present time (and perhaps always). The only model which permits all of these views to be accurate representations of reality is if the stars are stationary. You are making several assumptions here, which reflect your worldview. Nothing wrong with that, but we are trying to eliminate assumptions and deal only with observable fact. If however you can demonstrate to me that <in the geocentric model> -- for instance -- our view of the stars (including nightly star trails), our view of Uranus, Uranus' view of Earth and Uranus' view of the stars (including nightly star trails) can all coexist then I'd be obliged to rethink my position. I do not intend to waste my time trying to do that, but would only say that in the GC system, movement of the stars is caused by movement of the stars, and views from the World or Uranus do not need to coexist (whatever that means). Neville. Paul D Screensaver Preview" src="http://my.inbox.com/img/ftrs/earth.jpg"; width=100 align=left border=0> Free 3D Earth Screensaver Watch the Earth right on your desktop! Check it out at www.inbox.com/earth Make the switch to the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now. www.yahoo7.com.au/worldsbestemail