[GeoStL] Re: Archive this geocache?

  • From: "Eric East" <christianherper@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 07:52:26 -0500

This cache placer is a public servant, a fire fighter. Public safety is his job 
so, I tend to believe that this individual has permission.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Know Future 
  To: geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Cc: geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 11:10 PM
  Subject: [GeoStL] Re: Archive this geocache?

  As always, it's great to examine the issue from every point of view, but I 
have to disagree with the placement of a cache that might knowingly endanger 
the cacher. 

  1) I believe we should be able to assume that we can hunt an approved 
geocache without first checking for permission. Maybe the owner of this cache 
thought he/she was placing it on public property and was mistaken. If that's 
the case, I think the owner is responsible for correcting the mistake. He/she 
should either get permission from the land owner, or move the cache to another 
location, or achive it. I don't think it's right to try to place the 
responsibility on the cache hunter for determining if a cache is legal to 
visit. The cache owner should do that before placing the cache. Or, if the 
situation changes after the cache is placed, which may have happened here, the 
owner should make corrections.  

  2) Whether or not this neighborhood crank/bully really owns the property is 
almost irrelevant, in my opinion. He's still there, making threats. That's 
probably not going to change. 

  3) Discussion, of course, is different than action. We had issues earlier 
this year with a cacher who took it upon himself to remove caches that were 
environmentally insensitive, or something like that. If that person had 
discussed it first with the SLAGA community, in this forum, the matter might 
have been resolved to everyone's satisfaction. IMO it never hurts to discuss 
any issue relevant to safe and enjoyable geocaching. Please, let's not say we 
can't discuss an issue here.

  Finally, geocache owners have rights -- and responsibilities. We can't 
protect the cache hunter from every possible hazard, nor should we try. I don't 
believe, however, that we have the right to deliberately expose folks to known 
safety hazards when they hunt our caches. 

  Thanks for listening,

  Know Future

  On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 19:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Dan Henke <thunder_monk@xxxxxxxxx> 
    I have read the thread on this cache and would like to offer my opinion for 
what it is worth.

    First a lot of people are making an assumption that permission was not 
sought and received....we don't know whether it has or not but would it not be 
more appropriate to assume that it HAS been given rather than taking a negative 
view. It probably should be noted in the cache description that it has been 
sought and received but it is NOT required that it be and most caches do NOT 
have that in the description. 

    Secondly from the log I read the irate land owner said "he owns the land 
around and behind " but he never says he owns the cemetery and chances are he 
does not...I have run into property owners both in surveying and caching and 
other activities that will tell you that they own the land in question even 
though they don't just to keep people away from "their" land. I could sight 
several examples but that would take way too much space in this email.

    Third ....I don't like discussions on archiving someone else's cache but as 
it has been brought up I will say this.....NO ONE forces anyone to do any 
particular cache...it is entirely up to the searcher and if they take the time 
to read logs etc on a cache and it looks dangerous to them then they can pass 
on the cache. If they feel strongly about it then they should contact the owner 
privately and discuss it with him/her/them but it still should be left up 
entirely to the owner of the cache and not subject to a discussion on the 
forums or newsgroups. I don't know about any of you but when a cache of mine is 
criticized without an email to me first I take it personally.....I try to put a 
lot of thought and things into each cache and as the owner there may be things 
about the cache I just don't put into my cache description either because I 
don't feel it is relevant or because it will make the cache find to easy. 

    I ran into a similar situation on a cache I did a couple of years ago where 
an irate land owner threatened to call the police because I was "trespassing" 
on "his" property.....I was not and the cache was on very public land but this 
owner did not like people around his property so he just told everyone he owned 
the public park property as well. I sent an email to the cache owner and told 
him of the situation and he then had the option to make whatever adjustments he 
wanted to to the description or to archive or whatever he wanted but it was the 
owner's right to make those changes and not have them dictated to him by 
someone else.

    I am a firm believer in the "rights" of the owner to set up his/her cache 
in whatever manner that is desired otherwise all caches would be the same and 
the fun of something new and different would be gone. Just because one person 
or even a group of people don't like the way a cache is done or put together 
doesn't mean they have the right to demand a change....they do have the right 
however to do or not to do this cache.

    Just my humble opinion 

    Dan (Thunder)

    Know Future <know_future@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
      Last week Geo Jim described a tense encounter with an unfriendly 
landowner while hunting the Chapman's Ball (GCKBKH) geocache. I was surprised 
at the lack of comments in this forum. My question is this: given the 
possibility that future visitors could be subjected to verbal abuse and even 
physical violence, doesn't it seem prudent to consider archiving this cache? 
I'd like to hear your thoughts.

      Know Future

      August 7 by Geo Jim (949 found)
      "Pretty easy find and a nice peaceful place. Thanks for the cache!
      One of the local landowners came by and told me how he doesn't much care 
for hunters on his land, people drinking back there and "geo-catchers". I just 
nodded and said, "Yeah.." at the right times. And thought of "Deliverance" as I 
tried to hide my 'Geocaching 101' tee shirt.."

      Note: this doesn't begin to describe the incident -- KF


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