[GeoStL] Re: Additional Waypoints on Cache pages.

  • From: Glenn <GLNash@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:58:31 -0500

EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT questions. Reading the guidelines for cache 
saturation, it becomes almost clear. "This guideline applies to all 
stages of multicaches and mystery/puzzle caches, except for any “bogus” 
posted coordinates for a puzzle cache."

So, IN GENERAL, all points of your spiffy new cache has to be *at least* 
(and hopefully more) than the 0.1 mile guideline from all other 
waypoints of all other caches. There are things that DID matter in the 
past that I no longer care about.

I don't care if the "Bogus Coords" listed on the page are too close to a 
cache. They are bogus so who cares. I don't care about parking lots 
anymore, I don't care if two or more caches list the same trailhead, I 
don't care about old grandfathered virtual caches. I also don't care 
about benchmarks or the new virtual cache replacements called waymarks. 

I DO care about all other waypoints in multi caches tho even if the 
waypoint is a "virtual" one. You know, the ones that say "go here, look 
at a sign and get some numbers". Granted, there is no box there but it 
still does count.

Does this mean that all the waypoints in your new spiffy multi/puzzle 
cache has to be >528 feet from each other? No. I will let waypoints in 
the SAME multicache get a little closer to each other than 0.1 mile.

Next point, you are correct about saying that you may not know where all 
the waypoints for all the caches are in a park and it makes it difficult 
to hide a cache. You are 100% correct. It is very difficult and getting 
more so all the time. Within the last week I have had too great looking 
caches try to go into Larson park. There is only one cache there. 
Unfortunately it is a multi that blocks out the entire park. The new 
cache hiders had to move their caches to another park as Larson is 
totally "closed". That is the problem with multi caches in smallish 
parks. They can easily block the whole park . Larger areas are affected 
as well. This morning I archived a cache that was too close to one of 
happykrauts caches in a giant area past Bush Wildlife.

How is the problem found? When a new cache is submitted that "looks" too 
close to something or if i just happen to remember that there is a final 
location of a cache that is there someplace, I download the waypoint and 
all the other wpts I have on file of the particular area and I start 
mapping and measuring. If it is too close, I have found a problem.

How are problems solved? I have to tell the cacher that they are too 
close to another waypoint. I always tell them that they are xxx feet 
away. If the cache placer is interested in moving the cache, they may 
run a few numbers by me before placing another cache. Sometimes folks 
don't and they have had to move a cache 2 or 3 times to get it right. A 
cache called "Triple Play" was such a cache. It was move three times, 
hence the name. It is not easy. In the Triple Play's case, I had an 
areal photo of the area and marked 2 or 3 "safe areas". If I know that 
the cacher has found the caches in the park, I can make a real nice map 
of all the waypoints with a 0.1 mile circle around each point. It is 
then pretty easy to see what is open.

Something like http://tinyurl.com/qnevd

I can easily see that the new cache (#1) is too close to 2 & 4 and can 
suggest some possible good spots based on the areal photos.
N39 00.000 W090 00.000 <---from New Cache 1
N38 59.974 W089 59.964 231 ft point 2
N39 00.120 W089 59.619 0.37 mi cache 3
N39 00.074 W090 00.043 493 ft micro 4
N39 00.090 W090 00.253 0.25 mi spot5

Are you making it toooo hard? Not really. It is quite frustrating for 
new cachers to find an open area. Everyday I have caches submitted that 
never see the light of day because they are too close to someone's spot. 
How in the world is a new cacher supposed to know where all the 
waypoints for all the caches in all the parks are? It would be tough. 
That's why *I* keep track of them in a separate GSAK database. Hopefully 
the database of "additional waypoints" will keep track of them even 
better than I can. I have been know to loose a few waypoints here and 

Clear as mud, right. Any more questions?


Mike Lusicic wrote:
> -
>  You mention checking to see if waypoints are too close to existing caches.
> My recollection of reading the rules seemed to imply that only the cache had
> to be a certain distance from another cache. So what are the rules
> concerningstarting points, intermediate waypoints, and final cache
> locations.For example, puzzle caches may list the starting point as a
> parkinglot. More than one can start in the same parking lot. It all seems a
> bit confusing. If you have not worked a cache in the area, you may not know
> where a final and intermediate waypoints are, so it is tough to plan
> intermediate waypoints on your own multi unless you not only kept track of
> the final, but all the intermediates along the way as well. And if you don't
> reveal that information to the new cacher, then what to do you tell them? It
> is too close, move it, but they may wind up moving it closer rather than
> farther away since they don't know where the other stuff is.
> I guess I may be making it harder than what it is, but I just don't see how
> it works or what the rules are.
> Glenn wrote: - Good Afternoon, I am writing to ask everyone take a look at
> their multi and puzzle caches and to use the "Additional Waypoints" feature
> to add the coordinates for all the stages of the caches into the waypoint
> database. It took several years of asking and waiting but since January 2006
> it's finally been possible to record Additional Waypoints onto your cache
> pages. Cache reviewers are beginning to require all multicaches and puzzle
> caches to have their coordinates posted as hidden waypoints using this new
> feature. The reviewers have features available to work with the additional
> waypoints, making the processing of reviewing your cache far more efficient.
> The final cache location and any other non-public information can be kept
> "hidden" so that only you as the owner, and site admins/volunteers, can view
> that information. Using the new feature helps you because you can go back
> andrefer to your cache page if you need to check on your cache, and it helps
> the cache reviewer because it speeds the process of checking these waypoints
> against any existing or future cache placements, to make sure that caches
> arenot too close to each other. If anyone has not looked at this feature, it
> is pretty neat. Parking coords, neat things along the cache route or just
> about anything can also be added. When a cacher downloads the cache
> waypoints, they will also get the additional coords into the gps also. Very
> neat. I know many of us have already added additional waypoints to their
> caches. Thanks a million. I have been adding many more as I go along but I
> still have 5 or 600 more to go. So, please take a look and do what you can.
> Many thanks, Glenn, your friendly Geocaching.com admin. Missouri Geocachers
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