This is a question for the group in regards to "upgrading" to Windows. Currently we are completely Unix at 6.5.3, we have very good system reliability and we spend very little time fixing things. Will this be the same as we move to Windows or can we expect to have to add resources? Brian Long Arkansas Kraft -----Original Message----- From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Schwarz, Bob Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:06 AM To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [foxboro] RE : Barriers to migration to Windows On The InFusion Front for Mesh Windows system: The New Configurator, InFusion Engineering Environment (IEE) works from any licensed station to talk to the Configuration Database referred as a Galaxy Repository (GR). We now have a corporately supported Configurator for Windows based systems accessible from multiple windows workstations. Backup of windows stations; this product is becoming a supported solution without ever shutting down the windows workstation. Restore does not require the installation of XP and so on. This was demonstrated to many users at the user group meeting. InFusion-View vs. Foxview; Sorry to inform you, Foxview is not going away. InFusion systems can take advantage of the new Configurator, new InFusion Historian, as well as maintain all of the existing displays in Foxview. = Keeping current; all of the Control configurations can be imported into the new Configurator from savealls taken from the previous Configurators with very little manual intervention. Remote connectivity; Users can take advantage of the terminal services offered in our P91 (Windows Server 2003), once this is set up very little user workstation setup. From any XP workstation the Remote Desktop option is under the Communication group. It is much easier to use that trying to get the Hummingbird Exceed Software setup correctly with the correct fonts and so on. -----Original Message----- From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of MUTI, Jean-Christophe Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:43 AM To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [foxboro] RE : Barriers to migration to Windows Try to be less disapointed please.=3D20 The system is not so bad and changing for another one is not so easy. I =3D know what i am talking about, because i have consulted for it 3 years =3D ago, and in function of your application it's very difficult to change =3D and save money. You wrote : "The new I/A falls in the category of "Not recommended for =3D new designs products" : i disagree with that. Actually, i would say that it's better =3D for new projects than for upgrade. You're right : a hole system is not so Cheap. I don't know where you work, but if you search a little, big DCS working =3D with Solaris are not so numerous !. Actually, they all work with =3D Windozzz or almost all. Invensys was one of the last to keep in life the =3D Solaris system. If you compare the price of a Solaris station (licence =3D included) and a windozz station, you see the difference. Of course you =3D have to add products like Switches, firewall and so on but it's not the =3D bigger problem. And i am not working in Invensys office. The big problem of invensys solution, is when you want to spread a =3D quickfix in a lot of stations or a committed configuration. You don't =3D have the ability to do it once for every one.=3D20 With winXP box, you need to reboot (in off plateform mode ) to do an IA =3D install. And after you need to reboot in operator mode. That's very =3D heavy for a simple act. Of course you loose a lot of things (remote foxview, self shell scripts =3D to re-adapt). And i will not say you win a lot.=3D20 I like IACC functionnalities : it's a central database. When you use it =3D with fowdraw, you can send files on each station at the same time. Even =3D if you have mix system : Solaris and windows. IACC converts files for =3D Solaris version. You don't work directly on the controler too. That's more safe Some one said a few weeks ago that it would have been clever to develop =3D all the application in Java so that it could be operationnal for Solaris =3D or Windowz (see Patrick Valentin mails): that was a good idea. Now talking about backup/restore : Invensys technicians use Ghost each =3D time they need to have a backup/Restore file before upgrading a station. =3D So I suppose they are confident with it !. They even use it for zero =3D install. For the rest, i would say that things are going too fast. For examples I =3D learned a few weeks ago that IACC (which is 4-5 years old) is already =3D "obsolet". Man talk about IEEE nowadays. Foxview seems to be at the end =3D of is life too. With infusion, we will see Intouch every where i suppose =3D ?. I have migrated all the plant to the new MESH network, with XPbox, =3D switches ... but i still keep my solaris box (AW51) for remote =3D applications (exceed, rlogin ...). How long ? I don't know.=3D20 best regards, keep on talking, just say it... Jean-Christophe MUTI -----Message d'origine----- De : foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]De la part de Pablo Lioi Envoy=3DE9 : Thursday, August 30, 2007 16:02 =3DC0 : foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Objet : [foxboro] RE : Barriers to migration to Windows To all the UNIX gurus migrating to Micro$oft Windoze, My first I/A was 6.1 under WinNT. It was the first time I worked with a =3D DCS,=3D20 as my previous experience only involved PLCs and SCADAs. At first I was shocked at the (unnecessary) complexity of the system (by =3D the=3D20 way I had no training and had to learn the hard way by myself), and one =3D of=3D20 the things I disliked most was the mix between Windoze and Unix=3D20 applications, exceed and the MKS toolkit. Don't get me wrong: I like =3D Unix,=3D20 Linux in particular, but I also like clean solutions. Windoze apps in=3D20 Windoze, Unix apps in Unix. Documentation didn't help much (I never knew =3D if=3D20 a manual like "human interface calls" applied only to Unix or was also=3D20 valid, at least to some extent, for the NT version). Anyway, one knew that out there there was THE REAL THING.... THE UNIX=3D20 VERSION, where all the weird things were natural, and I only had the =3D cheap=3D20 version of THE SYSTEM. Now Foxboro has decided to kill THE REAL THING, and we are left with the =3D latest version of THE CHEAP VERSION, which is not so cheap after all (we =3D paid $75000 for a Dell Server that is worth some $15000 for the rest of =3D the=3D20 world). I think that the least they should have done was to build the =3D whole=3D20 thing from scratch and do away with exceed, the emulated shell, ICC, =3D SYSTEM=3D20 MONITOR, etc. Besides, the performance of the 8.x system is the same or=3D20 worse as our previous 6.5.1 NT running on Pentium II PC's. It doesn't surprise me that migrated UNIX users are complaining about =3D the=3D20 things they have lost. And know what? They aren't going to get any=3D20 solutions. I've been training two young engineers during the last months. At times =3D it=3D20 is almost impossible to explain the way things are done in the I/A. If =3D you=3D20 can't find a good explanation for something, then it is probably done =3D the=3D20 wrong way. If I had to advise somebody I would say: - The new I/A falls in the category of "Not recommended for new designs" =3D products - If you have a small I/A system, and need to upgrade, consider changing =3D to=3D20 another product - If you have a large I/A system, and need to upgrade, well..... you are =3D dead, my friend. Regards Pablo Lioi _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Caf=3DE9 - open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served =3D daily.=3D20 Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=3D3DTXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline =3D20 =3D20 _______________________________________________________________________ This mailing list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Invensys Process Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at your own risks. Read http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html =3D20 foxboro mailing list: //www.freelists.org/list/foxboro to subscribe: =3D mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=3D3Djoin to unsubscribe: =3D mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=3D3Dleave =3D20 = = _______________________________________________________________________ This mailing list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Invensys Process Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at your own risks. Read http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html = foxboro mailing list: //www.freelists.org/list/foxboro to subscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=3Djoin to unsubscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=3Dleave = Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this electronic message and any attachment(s) = to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) and = may contain confidential, privileged or proprietary information. If you are= not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, delete a= ll copies of this message and any attachment(s). Any other use of the E-Mai= l by you is prohibited. _______________________________________________________________________ This mailing list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Invensys Process Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at your own risks. Read http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html foxboro mailing list: //www.freelists.org/list/foxboro to subscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=join to unsubscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=leave _______________________________________________________________________ This mailing list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Invensys Process Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at your own risks. 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