Re: [foxboro] Fear & Loathing in Las Vega$
- From: "Deen, Ron" <rdeen@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:29:32 -0400
Thank you
Ron Deen (Foxboro)
-----Original Message-----
From: Stear, Bo [mailto:stear@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 2:33 PM
To: 'foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Fear & Loathing in Las Vega$
SHHHEEEeeesssssh!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark V. Urda [mailto:mvurda@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 9:17 PM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Fear & Loathing in Las Vega$
Dear UNIX devotees-
Do not fear the future, but embrace it. Just as the superior Beta lost to
the inferior VHS, UNIX with its many strengths but eroding market share will
give way to Windows NT/2000/XP capabilities and promises.
Just as Foxboro for many years has provided a migration path to protect
your DCS investment, Invensys Process Systems will provide a path to ease
the transition to the ArchestrA software architecture.
UNIX is not dead, but just like pnuematics and the 4-20ma loop, it is not
future direction of our industry.
Sincerely yours;
Mark V. Urda
Synergy Systems Inc.
528 West 5th Avenue
Naperville, IL 60563
phone: 630-778-1960
fax: 630-778-7926
cell: 630-248-9382
web: www.synsysinc.com
www.invensys.com Global Automation Partner
www.foxboro.com Intelligent Automation Solutions
www.triconex.com Safety PLC and Turbine Controls
www.thermox.com Combustion Efficiency Analyzers
www.eurotherm.com Temperature and Process Controllers
www.ircon.com Non-contact Temp Measurement
www.chessell.com Data Recorders and Systems
www.opto22.com Ethernet IO and Control
-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Stear, Bo
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 2:15 PM
To: 'foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Fear & Loathing in Las Vega$
So the battle between the Technical Advisors and Supervisors continues.
I've been battling it for years, since NT spilled out at one of the previous
International Meetings (and if you were there you should remember we voted
it DOWN!). So far, I'm holding my ground but, like the rest of you, the
future is catching up with me and I foresee slowly loosing. Whatever
happened to the term "Industrial Grade"? It seems now there is only
"Consumer Grade" and "Mil Spec". The humility of it all.......
-----Original Message-----
From: Meltvedt, Sean [mailto:Sean.Meltvedt@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 12:57 PM
To: 'foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Fear & Loathing in Las Vega$
I have been fairly quiet on this list. But as a IT man in a previous life,
the thought of Windows as the only option for the control room is Scary.
Just to put out my 2 cents, I think that Foxboro (Invensys IPS or whatever
they are called now) should put some serious effort to porting to a version
of Linux. If this was done, then Foxboro would control the destiny of the
OS. In addition Foxboro could provide the specifications for the hardware
to a Manufacture (Dell, Compaq/HP, IBM etc) to follow. If certain
components (we all remember the CP40A to CP40B issue thanks to Intel) were
unavailable, Foxboro could recompile the Kernel and update the hardware
specs. In short, Foxboro could control the OS and the associated hardware -
providing a stable proven platform. Let's not forget the price - for those
that follow Micro$oft licensing programs, they know that this is in our best
interest.
I just hope the right people at Foxboro are listening!!!!!!!
Sean Meltvedt
Process Control Systems Engineer
Williams Alaska Petroleum Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: Corey R Clingo [mailto:clingoc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 9:29 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Fear & Loathing in Las Vega$
And I would add that Invensys is thinking that concentrating on one platform
will save them development time and effort. NT/2000/XP is an inferior
automation platform; anyone who has used NT and any version of Unix or a
proprietary OS knows that. But Micro$oft wins again by inertia/market share
brought about by, you guessed it, superior marketing - not superior
technology
(it is sad, too, because they have the resources to put out superior
technology).
Developing on one platform is, at least in theory, easier than developing
for
two, or ten. I don't know that working around the difficulties of Windoze
doesn't at least partially offset that savings, but from a high-level
manager's
viewpoint, the cost, time, and manpower savings are probably too hard to
ignore.
And what platform are they gonna bet on? Not Solaris. Sun has long since
lost
the workstation market, and is losing ground in the server arena as well.
The
sale of Alpha to Intel and the migration of HP machines to IA-64 have not
helped
Sun's position, either.
So the obvious choice (to the aforemantioned high-level manager) is
Intel/Windoze. They can tout a laundry list of "customer benefits" (OPC,
running Excel on your DCS console, etc.) but the truth is that Invensys is
the
primary beneficiary.
And if the boxes aren't as robust as Sun's, well, Invensys just tells you to
buy
more of them. Works out great for them.
As for reliability, 2000/XP is no better than NT -- in fact it is worse in
some
ways. I can spontaneously reboot a W2K machine and an XP machine I have, on
command, by shutting down a certain USB device I use on them. So I usually
attach the device to one of my Linux boxes; no problem. Sure didn't give me
any
comfort. I tend to get the spontaneous reboots rather than blue screens of
NT,
but that isn't an improvement IMHO.
I just hope the Wonderware coders have some insight that will keep us
customers
from having to do too much gamma testing.
I did have a question though. Is Invensys going to an IEC-1131 style of
programming for all their systems, as they use for Triconex now? Will I be
able
to define my own custom blocks in a CP?
Corey Clingo
Sr. Engineer
BASF Corporation
drjohn@xxxxxxxxxx on 10/10/2001 10:31:19 AM
Please respond to foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: foxboro
cc:
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Fear & Loathing in Las Vega$
Mike Jaudon asked (I sum up here)
What is the incentive to change?
I think it is supposed to be a better, easier to use set of tools that are
more
consistent and windows like. They invision being able to use one control
configurator for any of the Invensys family of products with modules that
connect to the ArchestrA framework. I did look at the "concept" icc and it
had
some nice features. I don't think that any of the old stuff is going to
quit
working. I just don't think there will be too much of a development effort
placed on the Unix systems. They are going to upgrade the base OS on the
Unix
boxes to Solaris 8 in a mid 2002 release. That should make the Unix
platform
supportable for a long time. They are also planning to release a new
FoxView
FoxDraw package for NT(XP) and Unix mid 2002. This new stuff is still a
loooong way off, so no need to get too stressed. But they are making it
clear
that this is the path that they wish to take.
Regards,
David
___________________________________________________________________
This list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by The Foxboro Company.
Use the information obtained here at your own risk. For disclaimer,
see http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html#maillist
list info: //www.freelists.org/list/foxboro
subscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=join
unsubscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=leave
___________________________________________________________________
This list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by The Foxboro Company.
Use the information obtained here at your own risk. For disclaimer,
see http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html#maillist
list info: //www.freelists.org/list/foxboro
subscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=join
unsubscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=leave
___________________________________________________________________
This list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by The Foxboro Company.
Use the information obtained here at your own risk. For disclaimer,
see http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html#maillist
list info: //www.freelists.org/list/foxboro
subscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=join
unsubscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=leave
___________________________________________________________________
This list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by The Foxboro Company.
Use the information obtained here at your own risk. For disclaimer,
see http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html#maillist
list info: //www.freelists.org/list/foxboro
subscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=join
unsubscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=leave
___________________________________________________________________
This list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by The Foxboro Company.
Use the information obtained here at your own risk. For disclaimer,
see http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html#maillist
list info: //www.freelists.org/list/foxboro
subscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=join
unsubscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=leave
___________________________________________________________________
This list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by The Foxboro Company.
Use the information obtained here at your own risk. For disclaimer,
see http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html#maillist
list info: //www.freelists.org/list/foxboro
subscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=join
unsubscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=leave
Other related posts:
