Re: exchange list Re: Help please
- From: "Chris Nielsen" <cnielsen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'[ExchangeList]'" <exchangelist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:40:18 -0600
To add to this a little bit...
I find it amazing how a bit of experience can make a huge difference in
finding answers to your questions. It's quite hard to tell when someone has
researched a problem or not, unless they are verbose or explanatory.
I, for instance, have a hard time finding appropriate answers on Microsoft's
Knowledge Base. I often search there, then search Google, then check the
books I have at my disposal, only to find nothing. I then submit my question
to a newsgroup or a list and what do they bounce back at me? Links to direct
answers to my questions found in MS's KB! Argh! That wasn't there before!
(It was but I'll be damned if I could get it to come up in a search.)
The issue that brought this up is different, I agree. But it's very hard to
try to make a separation between "advanced" questions that are worthy of the
list and "beginner" questions that should have been answered by looking that
answer up. I think there's a much easier distinction to be made in the way
that something is asked compared to the actual meat of the question being
asked, which makes the article shared by Thomas Shinder very apt and
worthwhile reading. Some people are list/newsgroup n00bs and should be
schooled in the finer art of asking questions. They should.
Now, not knowing something is not the same as flying in the face of
something you know pretending you didn't know it (and common sense, while
something that "everybody should have" is pretty subjective). And that, too,
is a very hard determination to make about someone else. But I think it
comes down to the old adage: convict the innocent man or let the guilty man
go? Smack 'em upside the head so they don't come around no more? Or shut
them down and usher them over to the "school room" in a way that they'll get
properly schooled and become a worthwhile participant? There's a certain art
and knowledge to being able to do that effectively too...
Chris Nielsen
Systems Administrator
New Dawn Technologies
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Parsons [mailto:rick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 5:55 PM
To: [ExchangeList]
Subject: [exchangelist] Re: exchange list Re: Help please
http://www.MSExchange.org/
Directed at John Tolmachoff.
Hi John,
I agree with your statements, but as a newbee! myself I have tried
reading the books and find it very hard to absorb the info thereby
contained. Probably due to a lack of formal training. But over time you
will hear more and more from me because my interest is very genuine and
if I can eventually help other newbee's! by experience then I shall be
very pleased with my learning curve. I again reiterate my grateful
thanks for the help received from this group(exchange list/isa list)
members whether formally qualified or qualified by experience. My
personal skills have been greatly enhanced and I earn a living on the
back of this fact albeit as a newbee!. One day I will attain full
qualification by experience counts for everything in my book, will
probably take a long time though (I am determined).
Professionals are made from amateurs, and amateurs become professionals
with help from the likes of this group.
Keep up the good work, (just had to say all that).
Best regards,
Rick Parsons
-----Original Message-----
From: John Tolmachoff (Lists) [mailto:johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 07 April 2003 14:38
To: [ExchangeList]
Subject: [exchangelist] Re: exchange list Re: Help please
http://www.MSExchange.org/
> I understand a person asking of help should not be taken for a "ride".
I
> hope others would see the futility of Mr. Stephen's mailing style and
> condone such activity as I have done so.
The person was not asking for help. He was asking for information on
where
to find resources on a subject he knows nothing of.
Any professional should know where to find basic resources. Again, we
are
talking about basics, not problem solving or features. As he is a member
of
this list, he must know about MSExchange.org. By nature of the list, it
is
for helping people with issues and such, not for basic questions such as
where can I find information about Exchange.
Furthermore, there seems to be a proliferation of newbie's asking basic
questions on a list without first doing any research. (Not just this
one, on
many.) While this in itself is not an issue, it indicates a lack of
professionalism in that the person has not done some basic research,
instead
turning directly to a list to ask questions.
Example, I have seen the same question basic question being asked over
and
over on the ISA list. This information is 1. Readily available in the
archives, 2. Readily available on ISAserver.org, 3. Readily available on
www.microsoft.com.
> Pardon me Mr. Stephen, I felt that the tone of your message was a bit
> rude for reply to a newbie.
I respectfully disagree with your opinion Mr. Srivas.
John Tolmachoff
MCSE, CSSA
Owner, Network Engineer/Consultant
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