"It might be differnet in other large companies, but in the places I've worked, the purchasing department and the departments that support to the phones decide what phones users get, not the users. There is no room for the user to dictate what phone they want to use, when the company has to provide the support for it. There are minor exceptions, such as for executives, but this is very rare. " In my experience, it's usually better for the people that actually do the business related tasks, and ultimately make the company money, rather than the team that supports them, be intimately involved and perhaps even the bigger influencer in those decisions. I know this often isn't how it works, but when it does I've seen great adoption of the decision and even better, creative thinking among the business users in better and more efficient ways to use the devices. If you have that many problems with 5 SmartPhones, maybe you need to revisit your training program or your configuration of the devices, rather than the devices themselves. I've deployed windows mobile devices (well, and PPCPE and SmartPhones) all over the country and with good user training the success has been equal to anything I've done with BES servers (and I've deployed BES to a few thousand folks, though admittedly not version 4). A couple of key points: It is less expensive because clients already own Exchange - BES is not simply a 'value-add' - and in my experience the device costs are close enough to make any price differences on device negligible. Also, though Evan points out that in his infrastructure the MAPI connection is not a concern, that can't always be said for many environments. You simply have to take any overhead impact into consideration, or you are asking for trouble in the long run (of course, this goes for any infrastructure changes). My personal opinion is E2K3SP2 makes BES an unnecessary luxury, UNLESS you already have the existing investment of course. Makes very little sense (unless BES is a huge headache) to rip out your existing infrastructure and all devices just because 'now it's in there.' Having said that, it probably makes it worthwhile to evaluate a strategy going forward as devices and servers approach retirement. My 2¢, anyhow... Rick From: exchangelist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:exchangelist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evan Mann Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 3:27 PM To: exchangelist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ExchangeList] RE: [ExchangeList] RE: [ExchangeList] Re: Smart Phones I have over 250 Blackberry Users to support. If they all had WM5 smart phones, I'd have at least 25 calls per day for the phones alone, based on the calls I get for the 5 or so users currently using WM5 phones. If I had to support 25 users, I might think differently. Yes, you can set password policy and a remote wipe, but the fact still remains there is no way to restrict anything else on those devices. I have a stout server infrastructure, I'm not concerned about the MAPI connections. I'm not concerned about my BES account being hacked either. Use a secure password. It's very easy to make a password that "cannot" be cracked. It might be differnet in other large companies, but in the places I've worked, the purchasing department and the departments that support to the phones decide what phones users get, not the users. There is no room for the user to dictate what phone they want to use, when the company has to provide the support for it. There are minor exceptions, such as for executives, but this is very rare. Training doesn't prevent users from doing things to their unrestricted phones that cause them to stop working. No amount of training can do that. Users can, and will play. BES lets you prevent their ability to play, which is why I (and many others) choose it. ________________________________ From: Mathieu CHATEAU [mailto:gollum123@xxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 2:50 PM To: Evan Mann Cc: exchangelist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ExchangeList] RE: [ExchangeList] Re: Smart Phones Hello Evan, to start with, my goal is NOT to make a troll. BES agent make 4 mapi connection per blackberry. The more you have blackberry... BES account have full access to all mailboxes. If it's cracked or virus coming in... We have setup full WM5 devices. Things i didn't know before: -Godaddy certificate (30$) is working directly with WM5 that have the security pack (no certificate install on device) -You can enforce password policy through ESM with device wipe after X attempt. -You can remote wipe a WM5 device from exchange (through the MobileAdmin website) -Direct SSL access to exchange FE (isa in reverse proxy before). -the main advantage is that can you freely choose your smartphone and operator. -Above all, you can and have to choose your form factor. This is the success key. Many users want the best one (mean the more expensive one), but this model are often not adapted. In our company, most users have choosen the biggest one with keyboard, even if we let them choose between 3 form factor (phone with WM5, pda look like (no keyboard), and the Qtek wih slide keyboard). We should have enforce their choice... Anyway which mobile solution you choose: Training, training, training. Start with your own staff, they must have deep knowledge about it. The success things: -Migrate their contact from the old phone. This means SIM and phone contacts. -Explain clearly the peak hours useness. -Explain bluetooth eat battery. -Give them the phone, make them answer a test call. Not just the answering thing but the real life thing: -Mute sound -Handfree button -search contact while on the phone -look agenda while on the phone hope it helps, Regards, Mathieu CHATEAU http://lordoftheping.blogspot.com Friday, September 8, 2006, 2:39:38 PM, you wrote: > You need to upgrade your BES. 4.x offers full wireless sync. I don't have a single user who has to cradle any more. I'm also offering support for Windows Mobile 5.0 devices, doesn't matter which kind, as long as it can be upgraded to support DirectPush. BES is better then all of them IMO. It offers bertter management and more security and policy enforcement then anyone else. You don't have to install special software on the handhelds either and deal with those issues. The phones aren't as "cool", but this is for business. Cool isn't a concern, reliability, security, and support are the concerns. ________________________________ From: exchangelist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:exchangelist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ara Avvali Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 8:24 PM To: exchangelist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ExchangeList] Re: Smart Phones We have all kinds here. * Blackberries. Emails are synced wireless but calendar and contact has to be done with wire (not bad). Good thing with BB access plan rate doesn't change outside the country. * Palm 700w and palm 700p. Fully synchronized wireless. Doesn't work outside USA * T-Mobile MDA windows based. Full active sync. Crazy expensive out states and Canada Exchange 2003 sp2 -----Original Message----- From: exchangelist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:exchangelist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Taylor, George Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 11:49 AM To: exchangelist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ExchangeList] Smart Phones I'm curious what type of Smart Phones folks are using with Exchange? For political reasons some admins here want to move away from Blackberries and BES. Right now we're looking at Goodlink and WSES. What are the rest of you using on the backend and what device are you having your users carry? Thanks, George Taylor Systems Programmer Regional Health Inc. ***Note: The information contained in this message, including any attachments, may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. 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