**** ETNI on the web http://www.etni.org.il http://www.etni.org **** May I ask a simple question: what is to prevent a pupil from doing a project and thus avoid being penalized twice? I must say I have little sympathy for these pupils and no problem giving a pupil a 40 on her/his Oral exam if s/he did not bother to make the effort to do a project (and since my class did their projects in Yud I have pupils who I have been nagging incessantly about this for over two years; enough nagging; now pay the price) I actually like this idea of accountability that the Oral exam now offers, or in other words, good, old fashioned putting in work if you want to get a good grade. As far as the problem raised here about the "borrowing" of projects from another school, I strongly favor the idea of an umbrella topic which helps to minimize this phenomenon. And if you're on top of them during the process (hm, that came out wrong, didn't it???) then you know which pupils have actually done their own projects and which haven't. And as I've written before, no self-respecting teacher will report to the examiner that a pupil has done a project if s/he hasn't. Amid all the negativity emanating from this list about project work - which I can certainly add to - I must say that it is infinitely more enjoyable and meaningful testing the Oral Bagrut via projects than those awful old Cue Cards. I sensed that the pupils I tested enjoyed talking about their projects and were even proud of them, besides the fact that I myself learned quite a number of things! These pupils had done their projects in Yud Bet, and some had finished their oral presentations only recently. This added a lot to the quality of their performance, since the project was still fresh in their minds. So one of the conclusions that I came to, is that the project should be done in Yud Bet, even though there is SO MUCH ELSE TO DO. Anyway, amidst all the complaints and criticism I felt the positive effects of what we're doing should also be mentioned. Regards, Maxine Tsvaigrach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Golomb" <golomb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: "etni" <etni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 11:40 PM Subject: [etni] Penalised Twice? > **** ETNI on the web http://www.etni.org.il http://www.etni.org **** > > I've been sitting back and reading the recent spate of letters complaining > about frustrations and confusion with the NBA and projects. > I predicted these problems a long time ago and, as you know, I've been > actively trying to do something about the situation. > It's obvious that the current situation can't continue. I hope that > something will come out of the meeting that I attended (and reported on > Etni) and which is written about in the latest issue of Kesher Ayin. > The project problem is greater than I expected. I have a question to > pose. There are some students who don't do their projects. They are > penalised by their English teacher because they get 0, which constitutes > 30% of one of their modules. > However, they are penalised AGAIN on the oral bagrut because 60% of the > oral test is based on a discussion about their project. > > I think that it is grossly unfair that a student who doesn't do the > project should be penalised TWICE. The oral test is to test oral > skills, therefore the currect system is totally unfair. Wouldn't it be > better to return to the old system of monologues? > > I also agree with many teachers who have written to complain that the > questions on the modules seem to confuse good, English speaking students. > I would prefer more challenging texts with straightforward questions that > test comprehension. > > Nina > > > ##### To send a message to the ETNI list email: etni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ##### > ##### Send queries and questions to: ask@xxxxxxxx ##### > ##### To send a message to the ETNI list email: etni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ##### ##### Send queries and questions to: ask@xxxxxxxx #####