[elky] Fwd: Custom Chip

  • From: John Christensen <johncgg@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: El Camino List <elky@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 10:09:58 -0500

This is a thrread I have been writing back anbd forth from a guy that is
going to burn a chip for the El Camino. I thought it was interesting about
his experience with the MSD box.

This is a long thread, so you would have to read from the bottom up to get
the whole thing. This person has been very helpful though, and the price is
nice for the chip, if the performance is improved. I have been sending him
WinALDL data from the computer.

JC

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: John Christensen <johncgg@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Custom Chip
To: Harris Performance <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxx>


I would not have a hard time taking it out of the loop, freeing up under
hood space, and selling it on eBay to finiance other stuff.  I'll just have
to figure out how I wired everything.

Thanks for the info.

  On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Harris Performance <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:

>  Carbs seems to run fine with MSD boxes but with TBI I have dyno’d 2
> trucks with MSD boxes and both lost 8hp at the wheels and I have had several
> customers with similar results and many issues with the MSD box burning up
> ignition modules like candy.****
>
> ** **
>
> Brian****
>
> Harris Performance INC****
>
> PO BOX 1447****
>
> Randleman, NC 27317****
>
> 336-471-2827****
>
> www.harrishighperformance.com ****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* John Christensen [mailto:johncgg@xxxxxxxxx]
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 14, 2011 9:43 AM
>
> *To:* Harris Performance
> *Subject:* Re: Custom Chip****
>
>   ** **
>
> I'll get some of those R44TS for it, and probably put them in on Tuesday
> (off).
>
> What sort of problems do you have with the MSD boxes? I noticed a
> performance improvement from the seat of the pants meter, but I installed it
> when I cad a Carter AFB carb. I just kept it when I converted to Fuel
> injection. So I have never been without it. I could take it out of the loop
> (and have less static in the radio ;) and see what happens, or doesn't
> happen.
>
> JC****
>
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 7:42 AM, Harris Performance <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:****
>
> Depends on what heads your using.  I use AC Delco’s and R44TS on engines
> requiring the short ½” reach spark plugs like stock TBI heads and most GM
> cast iron heads and R44LTS plugs on heads needing ¾” reach plugs like Vortec
> and most aluminum heads and for plug gap .035” to .040” and I never have
> good luck using MSD 6 boxes with fuel injection. ****
>
>  ****
>
> Brian****
>
> Harris Performance INC****
>
> PO BOX 1447****
>
> Randleman, NC 27317****
>
> 336-471-2827****
>
> www.harrishighperformance.com ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* John Christensen [mailto:johncgg@xxxxxxxxx]
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 13, 2011 7:47 AM****
>
>
> *To:* Harris Performance
> *Subject:* Re: Custom Chip****
>
>  ****
>
> What AC plugs would you recommend for my set up? I may just change them
> all, then I can get the 'big picture' with all the plugs for you.
>
> I am using the Bosch now (only because they were shorter to clear the
> headers more). I think the last ones I bought AC were R45TS, or R44TS. Also,
> you mentioned on your web site to run .035 gap. I have always rung .045 that
> was specified. I have an MSD 6 unit, and MSD 8366 Distributor. What should I
> run the gap at with the new chip?
>
> This is a one piece rear main seal 350 marine block with 10:1 pistons and
> mild (RV) Cam.
>
> I have a spare computer for a back up. If I can afford it, I may get
> another chip for that, so I wouldn't have to swap chips in the field in case
> of break down. I have had the computers go bad several times. Have to get
> past the up coming trip first though, and make sure the new one works well.
>
> Thanks for your advise.
>
> JC****
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Harris Performance <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:****
>
> To alter the programming that I sent you on the HOT chip would be $50.****
>
>  ****
>
> Brian****
>
> Harris Performance INC****
>
> PO BOX 1447****
>
> Randleman, NC 27317****
>
> 336-471-2827****
>
> www.harrishighperformance.com ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* John Christensen [mailto:johncgg@xxxxxxxxx]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2011 5:29 AM****
>
>
> *To:* Harris Performance
> *Subject:* Re: Custom Chip****
>
>  ****
>
> I will drive it as much as I can, and when I am off Tuesday I'll pull the
> plugs.
>
> You still have not said what the burning will cost. Is this the PROM only?
> Does the CAL Pack have to be changed?
>
> Please give me a range. I am prepared for $39.95  but over $150 would have
> to wait till after my Bonneville trip.
>
> Looking forward to playing with this. It actually is running much better
> with just the O2 sensor replaced.
> Thanks
> JC****
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 8:31 AM, Harris Performance <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:****
>
> Well if the plugs look correct then the adjustments to the chip to correct
> what I see on that data should do the trick.****
>
>  ****
>
> Brian****
>
> Harris Performance INC****
>
> PO BOX 1447****
>
> Randleman, NC 27317****
>
> 336-471-2827****
>
> www.harrishighperformance.com ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* John Christensen [mailto:johncgg@xxxxxxxxx]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2011 11:46 AM****
>
>
> *To:* Harris Performance
> *Subject:* Re: Custom Chip****
>
>  ****
>
> I'll run it some more before pulling the plugs. ****
>
>  ****
>
> My issues are really that I want to get the best response. Throttle
> response when it's cold especially is pretty poor. Once warmed up, it's not
> bad. I just want to wring out the best. ****
>
>  ****
>
> Thanks,****
>
> JC****
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Harris Performance <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:****
>
> Ok, data looks pretty lean.  I would like a description of the issues as
> well as seeing 2 spark plugs so I can make sure the computer is reading that
> o2 sensor correctly and giving us the correct plug coloring.****
>
>  ****
>
> Brian****
>
> Harris Performance INC****
>
> PO BOX 1447****
>
> Randleman, NC 27317****
>
> 336-471-2827****
>
> www.harrishighperformance.com ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* John Christensen [mailto:johncgg@xxxxxxxxx]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 09, 2011 6:55 PM ****
>
>
> *To:* Harris Performance
> *Subject:* Re: Custom Chip****
>
>  ****
>
> I don't know if I got 20 miles in, but I took data on 3 different runs
> today. I'll compress them, and send them with this email.
>
> I have 2 trips coming up, but I want to get this ironed out. One to a
> reunion of the band I was in, <http://www.jonesin.org/> and to the Salt
> Flats to drive this car<http://www.chevyasylum.com/85monte/85monte26.html>in 
> September. Trying to squeeze this in around all that.
>
> Thanks!
>
> JC****
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Harris Performance <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:****
>
> That looks like the same adapter.  Get that ac Delco 3 wire for $54 and run
> it a good 20 miles and then log me some data.****
>
>  ****
>
> Brian****
>
> Harris Performance INC****
>
> PO BOX 1447****
>
> Randleman, NC 27317****
>
> 336-471-2827****
>
> www.harrishighperformance.com ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* John Christensen [mailto:johncgg@xxxxxxxxx]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:46 PM****
>
>
> *To:* Harris Performance
> *Subject:* Re: Custom Chip****
>
>  ****
>
> I believe I have a similar connector, if not the same one, that I used for
> the conversion. This picture <http://www.myelcamino.net/ec/3wire_o2.jpg>has 
> the parts I originally put in. I blew a head gasket on the old engine,
> and changed the sensor to be sure things would work right. I think I put the
> same thing in as I took out though. This is the page that info is on:
>
> I will be going to Omaha on a trip to get together with the old band in
> August (from the Chicago area here). Then in September, I am headed to
> Bonneville to drive on the Salt Flats during World of Speed. Not in the El
> Camino, but a friends 1984 Monte Carlo SS. So I am saving money up for that.
> I still may pull the trigger on your sensor though. Have to wait till the
> next check at the first part of the month.
>
> Then I'll run some more numbers on the Win ALDL for you.
>
> What about the price of burning a chip? Just trying to budget. Thanks,
> JC****
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Harris Performance <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:****
>
> Well we need to get the computer at least adjusting the fuel the correct
> direction and then go from there as to what else it might need.  $54 isn’t
> bad for AC Delco.  Mine for the $71 comes with the wiring adapter so that
> you don’t have to alter the factory GM wiring harness to hook it up.   If
> you have already butchered up your wiring for the 3 wire o2 then the adapter
> won’t be as important. I find anytime you cut that wiring you run the risk
> of reducing signal strength and can cause issues with a very important
> sensor.****
>
>  ****
>
> Brian****
>
> Harris Performance INC****
>
> PO BOX 1447****
>
> Randleman, NC 27317****
>
> 336-471-2827****
>
> www.harrishighperformance.com ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* John Christensen [mailto:johncgg@xxxxxxxxx]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 19, 2011 3:48 PM****
>
>
> *To:* Harris Performance
> *Subject:* Re: Custom Chip****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Harris Performance <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:****
>
> Ok, are you burning the chip yourself.  ****
>
>
> Nope. A friend in TX did this 3 years ago or more. As far as I know, he was
> having trouble getting blank chips to burn, and I haven't asked him to work
> on this for me again. All he did was copy the factory programming, except
> for setting the lock-up at 40 instead of 30. That was it. I don't have a way
> to burn one, or have anyone that can program it. That is why I am contacting
> you. Hope that clears things up a bit.
>  ****
>
>  The data you sent showed the motor running lean and obviously the motor
> is running too rich on that plug coloring.   I haven’t had good luck running
> bosch plugs with TBI but that isn’t the main problem.  ****
>
>
> I would be happy to try different plugs. When AC went to a longer style for
> the same number, probably made in China like everything else, they wouldn't
> fit with the headers as well. I am up for suggestions on style number for
> plugs. If you have had good luck with something, and know your data, then I
> am open to get different plugs. These have a minimum of miles on them, but
> many years.
>
>  ****
>
>  The o2 sensor is telling the computer its running lean when its plainly
> NOT.  If your using a bosch o2 that is a key problem with them.  With data
> numbers like you have and nasty plug coloring, I would recommend
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Walker-3-wire-heated-O2-Oxygen-Sensor-Conversion-HEGO-/400036479947?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d240843cb
> and that should get the plug coloring looking better.  ****
>
>
> I did go from a 1 wire to a 3 wire for the O2 sensor, and it made a big
> difference initially. Especially the warm up. I have the number
> somewhere.......
> 9/14/05 Installed Standard Performance brand 3 wire Oxygen sensor. This
> referenced to GM Part number 25176708, AC Delco #213-632
>
> The Friendly local parts store I have an account with (sad statement right
> there ;) has the AC part you reference in your ad for $54. With the shipping
> from you I am at $71. Is it that much better? Granted, $17 isn't much for
> better performance, but it buys a good lunch. I would go with your
> recommendation to get the performance, but I still don't know how much we
> are talking to burn the chip either.
>
>  ****
>
>  You may need to set the base pulse width down a bit on those injectors to
> get a really good looking plug coloring but that should get the coloring
> looking decent.   I attached a picture of what TBI plug coloring should look
> like.  Those are just a tad on the dark side for a good efi plug but a good
> safe coloring.  Mine I run just a little lighter tan coloring on my personal
> stuff.****
>
>
> Here again... you know your stuff, and I am at a loss on how to straighten
> things out, but I am willing to take your suggestions. Even throw some money
> your way to get the Elky running well.
>
> Let me know if all this helps. If you think it would be good to change the
> O2 and run another set of numbers, we can do that too.
>
> Thanks,
> JC****
>
>    ****
>
> Brian****
>
> Harris Performance INC****
>
> PO BOX 1447****
>
> Randleman, NC 27317****
>
> 336-471-2827****
>
> www.harrishighperformance.com ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* John Christensen [mailto:johncgg@xxxxxxxxx]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 19, 2011 11:39 AM****
>
>
> *To:* Harris Performance
> *Subject:* Re: Custom Chip****
>
>  ****
>
> PROM 16139566 that has been copied, with the lockup changed to 40 mph
> instead of 30 (much better) That was the only modification.
> CAL-PACK 16060836
>
> Attached are pictures I just took of #3 and #4 plugs today.
> Thanks,
> JC****
>
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Harris Performance <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:****
>
> What chip are you running now?****
>
>  ****
>
> Brian****
>
> Harris Performance INC****
>
> PO BOX 1447****
>
> Randleman, NC 27317****
>
> 336-471-2827****
>
> www.harrishighperformance.com ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* John Christensen [mailto:johncgg@xxxxxxxxx]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 19, 2011 7:22 AM****
>
>
> *To:* Harris Performance
> *Subject:* Re: Custom Chip****
>
>  ****
>
> The only time I get a trouble light is for the lean code. I may have taken
> spark plug pics recently, I'll see if I can find them. From memory, they are
> clean with just a little white haze. I will pull one from each bank while
> I'm off work today.
>
> Another friend in TX was telling me that they were experimenting with a
> similar vehicle and engine combination, and they made it richer, and it ran
> much better. So it wouldn't surprise me. I didn't start getting the lean
> code until I changed throttle bodies, and added the spacer between the
> injectors and the body. I do have a bit higher compression than his though.
>
> What are we talking for price on the chip?
>
> Thanks,
> JC****
>
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Harris Performance <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:****
>
> Vacuum level looks good on the programming.  We look a tad lean on the
> programming but I would like to have a look at a spark plug from each side
> of the engine to make sure that the fuel the computer is adding is yielding
> the spark plug coloring we want to see on that electrode before adjusting
> the programming to take in those adjustments.****
>
>  ****
>
> Brian****
>
> Harris Performance INC****
>
> PO BOX 1447****
>
> Randleman, NC 27317****
>
> 336-471-2827****
>
> www.harrishighperformance.com ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* John Christensen [mailto:johncgg@xxxxxxxxx]
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 16, 2011 10:44 AM****
>
>
> *To:* Harris Performance
> *Subject:* Re: Custom Chip****
>
>  ****
>
> Here is the latest log set I have. Let me know what you think, or need.
>
> This is from 4 short runs on 3/8.
>
> I can't tell you for sure that the MAP sensor port is taking vacuum from
> the same location. I did change it back to the manifold from the TBI port,
> and it seems to run better, but I don't know if the signal is any different.
>
>
> I will confirm this with another run when it stops raining.
>
> Thanks,
> JC****
>
> On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 7:59 AM, Harris Performance <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:****
>
> Go ahead and run me a WinALDL log to look at.****
>
>  ****
>
> Brian****
>
> Harris Performance INC****
>
> PO BOX 1447****
>
> Randleman, NC 27317****
>
> 336-471-2827****
>
> www.harrishighperformance.com ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* John Christensen [mailto:johncgg@xxxxxxxxx]
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 02, 2011 8:44 AM
> *To:* Harris Performance
> *Subject:* Re: Custom Chip****
>
>  ****
>
> The busy season at work is over, and I can continue this project now.
>
> I used to run the port on the back for the brakes on the old throttle body
> and it did fine. I need to get a way to join all the vac hoses to the
> manifold port. (MAP, Cruise, Brakes, heater doors) but I will look for a
> way.
>
> I have no specs on the cam, other than it was just one bump up from stock.
> Using an RV cam spec is what I was told, so as to not affect the Fuel
> Injection. The idle is smooth, if that tells you anything. I couldn't even
> get the spec when it was apart the last time. The builder at the time could
> not cross reference it, and he was in the "if it ain't broke" mode. So I do
> not have that spec.
>
> The car has always run well, but I am just looking to optimize it. Before I
> replaced the throttle body, and before I changed the rear gears from 2.41 to
> 3.23, I got 19.5 mpg on a trip from Chicago to Omaha at up to 85 on the
> highway. So I know the efficiency is there.
>
> I do like the lockup speed where it is. It seems to work great there.
>
> Any help is appreciated. If you would like me to run a newer Win ALDL log,
> I can do that now. One laptop crashed but I have replaced it.
>
> How much would the custom chip be?
> Thanks in advance.
> JC****
>
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 8:05 AM, Harris Performance <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:****
>
> I need to know what the specs are on the cam that is in the motor as that
> is the easiest way to screw up fuel injection.  What port do you have the
> map sensor plugged into if you’re having issues with vacuum on the TBI
> ports.  Brake booster should not be connected to throttle body as none are
> large enough to run it.  There should be a port on your intake to connect
> that ½” hose too and there should be no way that size hole would be clogged.
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> Brian****
>
> Harris Performance INC****
>
> PO BOX 1447****
>
> Randleman, NC 27317****
>
> 336-471-2827****
>
> www.harrishighperformance.com ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* John Christensen [mailto:johncgg@xxxxxxxxx]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 15, 2010 7:56 AM
> *To:* sales@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* Custom Chip****
>
>  ****
>
> It's been a couple years since I first contacted you, and I think I am
> ready to upgrade my chip(s). ****
>
>
> I have a 1984 El Camino See: http://www.myelcamino.net
>
> I converted to TBI using a throttle body from a 1989 Camaro. I just
> replaced the throttle body with a rebuilt one because the throttle shaft was
> leaking. I had some issues with vacuum running the brakes, /there was much
> less volume at that port than the previous unit, and I am running the brakes
> from the front center port, and the rear is plugged. It works for now, but I
> don't think it's optimum.
>
> I am using a 1227747 ECM
> The motor is a 350 ex Marine engine with 10:1 flat top pistons and an RV
> cam
> I have a Suburban TBI intake
> 55# injectors from a Caprice
> in- tank fuel pump on the sending unit
> Stock rebuilt fuel pressure regulator
> the rear gears are 3.23, and I have a 350C trans, but want to go to
> overdrive.
> I have an MSD 6 unit, and an MSD Pro billet distributor PN  8366
> I also put a 1/4" plastic spacer between the injectors and the throttle
> body when I swapped the body out.
> O also have hedman shorty headers and dual exhaust without converters.
>
> The current chips are listed here:
> http://myelcamino.net/ec/painless_checklist.jpg except a friend duplicated
> one, but changed the lockup to 40 mph instead of 30 that the stock one was
> at.
>
> I have a hesitation mostly when it is cold, and I have always thought that
> the timing could be better controlled for my set up. I have to set the
> timing as far advanced as I can, and back it off to eliminate the knock. I
> can't set the static timing because the motor will not run at all with the
> brown wire disconnected at the ECM.
>
> I would rather end up with low end torque than high RPM. I never push it
> past 4000.
>
> I have winALDL data on the site with a link on the front page. I have yet
> to record any with the new body on it.
>
> Let me know what you need from here. I appreciate your expertise in tuning
> this vehicle.
>
> Thanks,
> JC
> ---
> John Christensen
> 1984 El Camino "Elkenstein" 350 TBI
> NECOA #042 http://www.myelcamino.net
> Saint Charles, IL****
>
>  ---
> John Christensen
> 1984 El Camino "Elkenstein" 350 TBI
> NECOA #042 http://www.myelcamino.net
> Saint Charles, IL****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
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> ** **
>

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