I fully agree with Makis.
In addition deploying part of corps into city before the battle "feels"
like cheating so there is no doubt in my mind this is the right way.
Well done Makis, tell us, when are you stating law school?
On 2018-03-08 8:44 PM, Makis Xiroyannis wrote:
Nope, I am afraid you are both wrong. I solved the riddle finally:
*5.2.3 TRANSFER OF ARMY FACTORS: During an Army Reinforcement*
*Step unbesieged corps in the same area may exchange factors as desired,*
*capacity permitting. Corps of different nationalities (including different*
*minors or a major power and a minor country) may not exchange factors.*
*_This is the only time during a Turn that army factors may be exchanged_*
*_except to detach and absorb garrison factors (see 7.3.3)_. Army factors may*
*also be exchanged with garrisons in the same area during this step, the*
*same as in 7.3.3 and, if all factors are detached from a corps, the corps*
*counter is removed (see 5.2.4). EXCEPTIONS: Feudal, insurrection and*
*artillery factors may not be exchanged.*
The above rule is on _reinforcement_, and rules out any other army factor exchange, _with the exception of detaching/absorbing garrison factors in 7.3.3_.
Fine so far, lets check 7.3.3
*7.3.3 MOVING INTO CITIES-DETACHING/ABSORBING FACTORSGARRISONS:*
*_During a major power's Land Movement Step_, any*
*non-artillery, non-feudal or non-insurrection corps may detach factors as*
*garrisons at, or absorb army factors from, depots hnd/or unbesieged*
*friendly or vacant cities by reducing or increasing its strength, if the*
*capacity is there. There is no movement point cost for doing this.*
So points here
A) 7.3.3 is on the _Land *Movement*_ step. The rule Dimitris and Yannis use is on 7.5 (_Land *Combat*_) Since 5.2.3 clearly mentions that _only reinforcement and 7.3.3_ are the times to exchange factors, it means it is not possible at any other time.
B) Furthermore 7.3.3 mentions this exception happens in a major's power Land Movement step, meaning its during a phasing player turn.
And as if the above are not enough, here comes 7.3.3.1
*
*
*7.3.3.1 _DETACHING/ABSORBING FACTORS RESTRICTIONS_: Regular*
*infantry and/or militia factors may not be detached or absorbed _in an area_*
*_containing enemy corps outside a city._*
I believe the above prove 7.5.1.1 viewed in isolation is wrong. It is a pitty we have to read several paragraphs of different sections in order to understand something, but there it goes.
"Portion of forces" means whole corps.
On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:17 PM, Yannis Sykamias <ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Yes, I agree Makis, this rule gives the defender the advantage of
deciding based on the force moving against him whether he intends
to “give” a pp in siege or not (provided the city does not have
any flech). But as it is written there is no reference to portion
of army.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf of Makis
Xiroyannis <makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>>
*Sent:* Thursday, March 8, 2018 8:59:17 PM
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: dropping factors when attacked
in any case I will check the rules again, but as I don't see
anyone else replying/caring I will not push the subject
On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:57 PM, Makis Xiroyannis
<makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
Ok I see where you stand. But I think it refers to whole corps
when it speaks for "portion of forces".
Lets take an example: A French corps with 20 infantry is
attacked in an area where there is an empty city with four
spires (but no fletch). As a French player I do not like the
odds of the attacking army, so I decide to place 19 infantry
inside the city _after_ you move and declare the attack. This
way, even if you win the siege against 19 French infantry,
you will not even get a PP because the corps never retreated
inside - it didn't have to. And I did that after seeing what
you had sent against me. Can I do that?
On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:03 PM, Yannis Sykamias
<ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I agree with Dimitris, the rule allows for a portion of
defender’s forces to retire in the city. Since there is no
explicit definition of portion of “something” I can
accept that it allows for factors from a corps to retire
in the city while the corps remains outside.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf of
Dimitris Stavr. <poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
*Sent:* Thursday, March 8, 2018 7:23:38 PM
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: dropping factors when attacked
in Lille i followed the rule
7.5.1.1 DEFENDER RETIREMENT INTO CITY: Any forces or
portion o 1f
forces upon whom an attack is declared may immediately
retire into any
friendly controlled or vacant, and unbesieged city in that
area but not so as
to exceed that city's garrison capacity
to me it was clear that as a defender i had this right.
if this should be interpreted in a different way, you have
my opinion, the stage is yours.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf of Makis
Xiroyannis <makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>>
*Sent:* Thursday, March 8, 2018 19:15
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [eiagreek] dropping factors when attacked
Another question that I don't remember if we clarified or
what we decided
If a corps is attacked in an area with a city and wants to
fight (as opposed to retreat behind walls) can the
defending corps still remove factors from it and place
them into the city?
I thought we could not since defender is not a phasing
player, but I saw Prussia doing that in Lille, shall we
play it this way?
