Considering ECCO have organised an online meeting for Saturday morning 10am
(see Mike's email) - why not join there and we can make a plan for a decent
discussion?
________________________________
From: eccotalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eccotalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf
of Sarah Travis <sarahtravis75@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 06 December 2020 17:41
To: eccotalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eccotalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [eccotalk] Re: An ECCO area response to traffic congestion andrelated
issues?!
Hello everyone,
I would like to participate in an alternative group to discuss these
issues-count me in!
Thanks
Sarah
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 17:27, Scott Royal
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Thank Jon for summarising and starting off the conversation.
I agree that transport is one of those subjects which always
sparks interest. Given Mike’s reminder about ECCO’s role, I would support the
creation of a separate discussion forum specifically looking at transport and
would be keen to participate.
From the wide-ranging discussion, it’s clear that there is
plenty to talk about and that there are very many perspectives just in our
little
corner of Sheffield. I suspect the first challenge will be to agree on some
areas of focus. Living on Brocco Bank I can think of three minor improvements
on this road alone.
I would say that Gordon’s original email was about the ongoing
consultation on the Transforming Cities Fund. This is solely about the £85m for
identified transport improvements across Sheffield. While the map on the
website enables comments on the wider area, I believe this first stage of
consultation is about the city centre improvements. Of concern to me, is that
when
it starts the consultation on Ecclesall Road will focus on what is being
described
as a ‘bus corridor’ which could be a dedicated bus only route (i.e. no
cycles). All well and good, but much depends on what that actually means and
how it is intended to be implemented. I personally will be opposed to anything
which
weakens Ecclesall Road and Sharrow Vale as a ‘commercial’ centre.
How do we initiate this separate forum?
Regards
Scott
On Sunday, 6 December 2020, 14:11:40 GMT, Gordon Ferguson
<gordon.ferguson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:gordon.ferguson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
As I see it, what is happening here is
'The
Tragedy Of the Commons<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons>' -
where the 'commons' here is our
shared streets, pavements and public spaces. Where there is no
commitment to a 'commons', then individual convenience and utility
will hold sway until the commons is used up and/or destroyed.
A commitment to a commons might take
the form of suffering some inconvenience by not using the car, so
that others who have more need can, or by being willing to pay
taxes towards cheap or free public transport. But if the gap
between where one lives and where ones needs to go is seen as
nobody's space, then it will be destroyed as we move through it in
our air-conditioned and air-purified metal boxes, oblivious to
whoever or whatever might also be in that space. This is the view
that sees very low speed limits, one-way access roads, speed
humps, expensive parking and other measures as an infringement of
one's individual liberty to come and go as one pleases, as though
one was the only person, or even living thing, in a place.
If we are going to save the commons we
must learn to cooperate with one another instead of competing with
one another. There is enough to go round, if only we shared it
equitably.
Gordon
On 06/12/2020 12:56, ramen fides wrote:
Yes, Shad, Marilyn & everybody else - and over
the past few years we have been seeing more changes that add to
the numbers of cars in the area: more student houses are going
back into resident ownership, others are occupied by young
professionals (each of whom normally works in a different place,
so usually there are multiple cars to each house). The economic
developments in the housing market have also meant that fewer
people 'get on the housing ladder', so stay here for longer
instead of moving out into leafy suburbs with driveways and
garages... All of which adds to the congestion.
Another issue is the way the Council takes
'half-hearted' measures, without taking into account the
systemic / knock-on effects. An example: they've used the
opportunity of the lockdown to extend pedestrianisation in the
city centre, further reducing accessibility by car. Great idea
in principle... but it means that all the shoppers that they
want to attract have to walk long distances to car parks or
bus stops, carrying their purchases. This in turn is fine if
you're strong and healthy... but it makes access more
difficult for people with mobility or back problems.
NB. Not that I'm currently dead keen on going to
town anyway... ;)
Fides
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020, 11:57
Marilyn Tsiorvas,
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
I agree with Shad but the downside is that
people’s lives have changed as a result eg children not at
local schools, people working further afield even within
Sheffield, more women working, Meadowhall etc etc. Corona
may have modified behaviour to some extent but I’m bot
sure how long term that will be, unfortunately.
Marilyn
On 6 Dec 2020, at 09:55, Shad
Woolgrove <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
Dear Jon. Noel. Clare et al
I am very interested in this
topic.
When I first moved to this area
in 1987 there was very little problem with parking,
Ecclesall Road and Brocco Bank rarely were at a
standstill, cycling was much safer and enjoyable – I
believe that a major contributor to this was the
incredibly cheap bus fares – a few pence to travel
into town so no one took a car – consequently there
was very little provision for car parking in town.
When the deregulation of the buses came in all that
changed almost over night – car parks sprang up all
over town; acres of land are taken up with cars that
have mostly only conveyed one person. All this must
change!
I’m in
Shad
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
From:
Clare Draffin<mailto:claredraffin@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 04 December 2020 22:28
To: eccotalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eccotalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [eccotalk] Re: An ECCO area
response to traffic congestion andrelated issues?!
Thanks for raising this
thorny problem again, Jon, and for summarising
all the issues raised by ECCO members.
I am keen to be part of any
group discussing possible solutions to
car/cycle/pedestrian problems. My experience
is a bit out of date: but 30 years ago (!) I
was one of a tiny group that set up a
Pedestrian Forum with the 'support' of SCC and
we worked alongside the cycle forum. We were
allotted a monthly slot with the transport
officers and came up with some innovative
ideas. But apart from the traffic humps on
Rustlings Rd, we achieved very little on the
ground, constantly thwarted by the highway
engineers and 'Government guidelines'. One
suggestion we made was for a raised zebra
halfway up Brocco Bank; another was for a
cycle lane on the houses side of Brocco Bank.
Of course, the highway engineers only saw
Hunters Bar as a main traffic through-route
and said exactly that: their fear was/is
always that of a built-up of traffic right
back to the centre of town if anything was/is
done to limit flow at HB. I don't know if any
of this thinking has changed; others will be
more up to date with current SCC thinking.
As we all know, HB is a
hazardous place to walk, especially for
children going to and from HB school. And, of
course, as Sue and Fred pointed out, Endcliffe
Glen Rd has twice-a-day rat-running traffic,
much of it from parents taking/collecting from
the local private schools.
On Fri, 4 Dec 2020, 18:19
joncowley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:joncowley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
Hi All,
A week or two ago Gordon forwarded to us
Sheffield City Council's "Ambitious Plans
for the Future of Travel in Sheffield". In
response Noel wrote a piece on his
experience of being a recent arrival to
the area and the one downside "which
is that traffic congestion on Brocco
Bank and Ecclesall Road is appalling".
This generated a very interesting email
discussion with several issues being
raised:
* traffic congestion
round Hunters Bar and the need to reduce
car use
* free/cheap, improved
buses as the key to changing that, and
safer cycling infrastructure
* Fred and Sue then
kicked off a discussion about rat
running through the area with
suggestions for blocking off a road and
traffic calming measures, and us
becoming a Low Traffic Neighbourhood
* pavement parking
* Ecclesall Rd
dangerous for cyclists, shocking for
pedestrians
* air pollution
measurements
* how flood defences
could contribute to traffic calming
* Nick drew our
attention to wider climate change
campaigns and discussions needed
Then the email chat went on to:
* tax (paying for it)
* should ECCO have a
meeting to discuss these issues,
campaign on the issues etc?
I hope I've touched on the main points,
sorry if I've missed something. However,
because I was excited by this discussion
developing and don't want it lost, I have
brought together and organised the
comments made in the attached document
(sad or what?: wet day in lockdown!).
Personally, I am 100% in favour of us
campaigning (with others along Ecclesall
Rd and Sharrow Vale) to have a much
cheaper bus service and much safer &
more pleasant environment for cyclists and
pedestrians on Ecclesall Rd, around
Hunters Bar and down Sharrow Vale (which I
think should be pedestrianised at the
school end). I also fully support a
campaign to stop the rat runs along
Endcliffe Glen Rd, Everton Rd, and
Rossington Rd (and others) and working out
between us how best to do that.
So I support the suggestion for an ECCO
meeting/sub-group/forum to discuss these
ideas and draw up a plan/proposal.
All the best,
Jon
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