Oh yes, Ian, Ellis Peters playing Mrs. Dale. Wasn't she eventually replaced and the part taken over by Stanley Matthews?
Trish.----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Macrae" <ian.macrae1@xxxxxxx>
To: <ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:43 PM Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Language In BooksOne instance of this I came across in non fiction Trish was when I read Simon elmes's history of voices on radio called Hello Again. At one point he referred to the actor who played Mrs Dale as Ellis Peters. I emailed him to congratulate him on what is a very interesting and entertaining book but could not resist the chance to point out his error. She was actually named Ellis Powell. The sound of him kicking himself was very audible in his reply when he'd realised that ellis Peters was a crime writer. On the language front what also get me going is the use of expressions which just weren't around at the time. Excellent though C J Sansum's dominion is, there are a few examples of this in there. I think at one point someone says, "There you go" which I'm sure didn't come into common usage until the early 70s, not the 50s.
On 11 Jun 2013, at 17:21, Trish Talbot wrote:
I must admit, Ian, that I didn't notice, let alone be annoyed by, "Knowing the heft of every knife", but I know just how much t5hese things can irritate. I getfind it frustrating when American words sneak into supposedly very British books, e.g. "She put the book in her purse". (Must have been a big purse, her handbag must have been very large to hold itj). Much as I loved the book, I found it disappointing when, atnear the end of Michelle Magorian's "GGoodnight, Mr. Tom", she talks about one of the girls wearing Zak's "Pants" when she means trousers, and about two sentences later, talks about them spooning "Jelly" onto their bread. I also dislike it when a dialect word is either used in the wrong sense, or spoken by someone supposedly from a different county, though this tends to happen more in TV dramatisations than in books.The other "Red car in Benn-Hurr" equivalent that jars on me is when a writer refers to a record or piece of music which wasn't recorded at the time. Maeve Binchy is guilty of this in "Firefly Summer". It shouldn't matter really, but it makes the story slightly less believable.Trish----- Original Message ----- From: Ian MacraeTo: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:34 AM Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.Hi elaine, for me it doesn't matter whether the language reflects the reality of such a person. This, as you suggest, is fiction after all. I'm sure the Saxons and Danes in Bernard cornwell's series set at the time of Alfred didn't speak in the way, meaning I suppose the idiom that his characters do. for me it's about whether they are true to the story and to the overall intention of the author. That phrase from the Bradford family's cook about knowing the heft of every knife just jarred with me. It's like the fact that people have spotted that there's a red car in one of the backgrounds of the great chariot race from the movie of Ben Her.On 10 Jun 2013, at 23:56, Elaine Harris (Rivendell) wrote: Ah, yes, I see what you mean.I don’t recall her bring particularly articulate but you could well be right. In fact, you have raised a most interesting question there. It has often occurred to me in the past that some characters express themselves more clearly and/or in better language than might their real life counterparts; it used to annoy me but no longer does. Not sure why. Perhaps an acceptance of artistic licence and a fear of inverted snobbier: as in, who am I to judge how well or badly someone may express themselves. It has occurred to me often, though, throughout my many years of reading.Thank you for prompting me to think about it again. ElaineFrom: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian MacraeSent: Tuesday, 11 June 2013 6:21 AM To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.Hi elanie, I'm sure I'll go back to the book, but the cook in question was the one who was fired when the big cheese family fled the village.On 10 Jun 2013, at 19:38, Elaine Harris (Rivendell) wrote:Ian, I can understand your doubts with Geraldine brooks’ Anna but since the narrator – by the end of the book and the perspective from which she is telling the story – is no mere seventeenth-century cook. Her education grows along with the book.For the record, Geraldine Brooks is Australian, started out as a reporter and her first book was non-fiction on Moslem women, married to Anthony (Tony) Horrowitz; not sure if he is English but is well-known for his children’s fiction (which I have not read) and they live in America though I think spend a fair amount of time in the UK.I loved the language; to me that was part of the thrill of the book; many of the words I think you would find only in a mediaeval dictionary.However, only you can know if a book is for you. Take care, ElaineFrom: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian MacraeSent: Tuesday, 11 June 2013 3:25 AM To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.Anyone care to outline what kind of fiction she writes? I must confess to be still struggling rather with Geraldine Brooks. Part of it is language. I don't believe any cook in the 17th century would ever have said, :I now the heft of every knife in this kitchen". It's a bit like those female American writers of historical fiction who think they create the language of the 15th century by inserting the word "Do" before every active verb.On 10 Jun 2013, at 17:54, Shell wrote:I think you might enjoy Sister David, though you do have to be on top of things at the end as Steve says. I think it's much more up your street though.Shell. -------------------------------------------------- From: "David Russell" <david.russell8@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 3:58 PM To: <ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.I read "Afterwards" and really struggled with it for many reasons. It wouldtake a good deal of persuasion for me to try reading Lupton again. David -----Original Message-----From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Clare Gailans Sent: 10 June 2013 12:03 To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.Trish, I have Sister and will try it now as you say it is so much better. I thought all the out-of-body business in Afterwrds spoilt what was otherwisea good book. Clare------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3199/5899 - Release Date: 06/10/13
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