[ebooktalk] Re: Language In Books
- From: Ian Macrae <ian.macrae1@xxxxxxx>
- To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 08:33:55 +0100
I have to say that cider With Roadies, the book, that is, had me laughing out
loud quite a lot. and as i do a lot of reading on the Tube, this can be rather
embarrassing. I've not tried Pies and Prejudice partly because of the archness
of the title and the other book of his I read, Hope And glory, about days out
around Britain was littered with such glaring factual errors that it was
spoiled for me. I'm now considering, however, taking on Paul Morley's new book
the North and everything in it.
On 12 Jun 2013, at 09:41, Voldi Gailans wrote:
> Hi Trish and all,
>
> I find such titles as Cider with Roadies very off-putting as it seems to me
> the author is distorting another author's title to make sales. I'm not that
> keen on comic titles either as the author seems to be saying aren't I funny
> before I've even read a word of it. I prefer a non-descript title and to
> discover the secrets of the book, with no clues whatsoever. I hate reading
> synopses.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Voldi
>
> At 23:40 11/06/2013, you wrote:
>> David, I enjoyed "Cider With Roadies" (Despite the corny title) but couldn't
>> get on with "Pies And Prejudice". I thought it was too contrived.
>> Trish.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Russell"
>> <david.russell8@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 9:52 PM
>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Language In Books
>>
>>
>>> I remember that Maconie book. He travelled around the UK stopping off at
>>> every Greggs bakers shop for a chicken and mushroom pasty. I actually went
>>> into my local Gregs and asked for one of the aforementioned pasties, and,
>>> alas, they told me they did not sell them.
>>>
>>> What a let down. I think the book was called "Pies and prejudice", and his
>>> previous book was "Cider with roadies".
>>>
>>> I think he has a new one out. I wonder if it has a witty title?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> On Behalf Of Ian Macrae
>>> Sent: 11 June 2013 21:26
>>> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Language In Books
>>>
>>> Brilliant! Another book I found littered with errors was one by Stuart
>>> Maconey, which I think was called HOpe And glory and concerned visits to
>>> various notable for one reason or another places in England.
>>> On 11 Jun 2013, at 20:35, Trish Talbot wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh yes, Ian, Ellis Peters playing Mrs. Dale. Wasn't she eventually
>>> replaced and the part taken over by Stanley Matthews?
>>>> Trish.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Macrae" <ian.macrae1@xxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:43 PM
>>>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Language In Books
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One instance of this I came across in non fiction Trish was when I read
>>> Simon elmes's history of voices on radio called Hello Again. At one point
>>> he referred to the actor who played Mrs Dale as Ellis Peters. I emailed him
>>> to congratulate him on what is a very interesting and entertaining book but
>>> could not resist the chance to point out his error. She was actually named
>>> Ellis Powell. The sound of him kicking himself was very audible in his
>>> reply when he'd realised that ellis Peters was a crime writer. On the
>>> language front what also get me going is the use of expressions which just
>>> weren't around at the time. Excellent though C J Sansum's dominion is,
>>> there are a few examples of this in there. I think at one point someone
>>> says, "There you go" which I'm sure didn't come into common usage until the
>>> early 70s, not the 50s.
>>>> On 11 Jun 2013, at 17:21, Trish Talbot wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I must admit, Ian, that I didn't notice, let alone be annoyed by,
>>> "Knowing the heft of every knife", but I know just how much t5hese things
>>> can irritate. I getfind it frustrating when American words sneak into
>>> supposedly very British books, e.g. "She put the book in her purse". (Must
>>> have been a big purse, her handbag must have been very large to hold itj).
>>> Much as I loved the book, I found it disappointing when, atnear the end of
>>> Michelle Magorian's "GGoodnight, Mr. Tom", she talks about one of the girls
>>> wearing Zak's "Pants" when she means trousers, and about two sentences
>>> later, talks about them spooning "Jelly" onto their bread. I also dislike
>>> it when a dialect word is either used in the wrong sense, or spoken by
>>> someone supposedly from a different county, though this tends to happen more
>>> in TV dramatisations than in books.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other "Red car in Benn-Hurr" equivalent that jars on me is when a
>>> writer refers to a record or piece of music which wasn't recorded at the
>>> time. Maeve Binchy is guilty of this in "Firefly Summer". It shouldn't
>>> matter really, but it makes the story slightly less believable.
>>>>> Trish
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ian Macrae
>>>>> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:34 AM
>>>>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi elaine, for me it doesn't matter whether the language reflects the
>>> reality of such a person. This, as you suggest, is fiction after all. I'm
>>> sure the Saxons and Danes in Bernard cornwell's series set at the time of
>>> Alfred didn't speak in the way, meaning I suppose the idiom that his
>>> characters do. for me it's about whether they are true to the story and to
>>> the overall intention of the author. That phrase from the Bradford family's
>>> cook about knowing the heft of every knife just jarred with me. It's like
>>> the fact that people have spotted that there's a red car in one of the
>>> backgrounds of the great chariot race from the movie of Ben Her.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10 Jun 2013, at 23:56, Elaine Harris (Rivendell) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, yes, I see what you mean.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't recall her bring particularly articulate but you could well be
>>> right. In fact, you have raised a most interesting question there. It has
>>> often occurred to me in the past that some characters express themselves
>>> more clearly and/or in better language than might their real life
>>> counterparts; it used to annoy me but no longer does. Not sure why. Perhaps
>>> an acceptance of artistic licence and a fear of inverted snobbier: as in,
>>> who am I to judge how well or badly someone may express themselves. It has
>>> occurred to me often, though, throughout my many years of reading.
>>>>> Thank you for prompting me to think about it again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Elaine
>>>>>
>>>>> From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian Macrae
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 11 June 2013 6:21 AM
>>>>> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi elanie, I'm sure I'll go back to the book, but the cook in question
>>> was the one who was fired when the big cheese family fled the village.
>>>>> On 10 Jun 2013, at 19:38, Elaine Harris (Rivendell) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ian, I can understand your doubts with Geraldine brooks' Anna but since
>>> the narrator - by the end of the book and the perspective from which she is
>>> telling the story - is no mere seventeenth-century cook. Her education grows
>>> along with the book.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the record, Geraldine Brooks is Australian, started out as a
>>> reporter and her first book was non-fiction on Moslem women, married to
>>> Anthony (Tony) Horrowitz; not sure if he is English but is well-known for
>>> his children's fiction (which I have not read) and they live in America
>>> though I think spend a fair amount of time in the UK.
>>>>>
>>>>> I loved the language; to me that was part of the thrill of the book;
>>> many of the words I think you would find only in a mediaeval dictionary.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, only you can know if a book is for you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>
>>>>> Elaine
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian Macrae
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 11 June 2013 3:25 AM
>>>>> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone care to outline what kind of fiction she writes? I must confess
>>> to be still struggling rather with Geraldine Brooks. Part of it is
>>> language. I don't believe any cook in the 17th century would ever have said,
>>> :I now the heft of every knife in this kitchen". It's a bit like those
>>> female American writers of historical fiction who think they create the
>>> language of the 15th century by inserting the word "Do" before every active
>>> verb.
>>>>> On 10 Jun 2013, at 17:54, Shell wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you might enjoy Sister David, though you do have to be on top
>>> of things at the end as Steve says. I think it's much more up your street
>>> though.
>>>>> Shell.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>> From: "David Russell" <david.russell8@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 3:58 PM
>>>>> To: <ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I read "Afterwards" and really struggled with it for many reasons.
>>>>>> It would take a good deal of persuasion for me to try reading Lupton
>>> again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Clare Gailans
>>>>>> Sent: 10 June 2013 12:03
>>>>>> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trish, I have Sister and will try it now as you say it is so much
>>>>>> better. I thought all the out-of-body business in Afterwrds spoilt
>>>>>> what was otherwise a good book. Clare
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>> ---------
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>>>>> 06/10/13
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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