[duxhelp] Re: British Braille

  • From: "Peter Sullivan" <peter@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 06:55:44 -0500


Joe is currently travelling, so the only communication he and I have had on
the issue of British templates (and all other issues related to the beta) is
through this list.  I'd like to have ten minutes of face time with him
before proceeding to do anything about this and most other
translation-related issues.  We're sure to make some progress next week.  I
think that you'll see a marked difference in beta 4.

- Peter 

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of David Spybey
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:10 AM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: British Braille 

Dear Jo


It is good to hear from you. 


I wonder if, in your response below, you assuming that all users of DBT are
as familiar with its versatility as you are. Most of our users will be
teachers who create a document in WORD, save it, import it into DBT,
translate and emboss. They do not know about styles and mention of the
'[caplv...] command' would probably cause anxiety! 


As I see it there are 6 different combinations in 10.6 for the template and
translation table in British Braille


1. Template -- English (British) no capitals in literary   

Translation table -- English/British


2. Template -- English (British) no capitals in literary   

Translation table -- English/British (pre-2005 rules) with capitals


3. Template -- English (British) no capitals in literary   

Translation table -- English/British (pre-2005 rules) without  capitals


4. Template -- English (British) with capitals

Translation table -- English/British (pre-2005 rules) without capitals


I have only done a brief test but these first four all seem to give the same
result in terms of capitals for text. Namely no capitals at all.


5. Template -- English (British) with capitals

Translation table -- English/British


6. Template -- English (British) with capitals

Translation table -- English/British (pre-2005 rules) with capitals


These two give capitals following the current rules or the pre-2005 rules. 


I agree that this does seem confusing. I do not know where, in terms of the
program, it is best to control the output. 


David Spybey





From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Joe Sullivan
Sent: 22 March 2006 17:56
To: DBT Beta
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: DBT Beta:templates missing


Hi David & other beta testers,

The expected four options are actually there in the sense that you can
obtain any combination of old and new rules, and with and without caps.
(There's even a useless fifth option, which I will come to.) However, as far
as templates are concerned, since those come into play only when starting a
new file (as contrasted with doing more work with an existing .dxp file),
and we assume that users will almost certainly want to use the new rules in
that circumstance, we have only provided two templates to cover the caps/no
caps option with the new rules. If you want to start a new file and for some
reason want to use the old rules, just pick the appropriate template as to
the caps/no caps option and then go to the Document / Translation table menu
and choose the "English/British (pre-2005 rules) with Capitals" table. You
should make that choice even if you used the "no capitals in literary"
template -- because the capitalization level setting in the template
(specifically, the [caplv1] or [caplv3] command in the "initial" style) is
what really counts for purposes of suppressing the capitals in the literary
portion of the text.

What may cause understandable confusion is the presence of the
"English/British (pre-2005 rules) without any capitals" item on the Document
/ Translation tables menu. With that selection, you get no capitals in any
portion of the text, not even in mathematics.  We have come to understand,
however, that capitals are normally wanted in math even when they are being
suppressed in the literary text -- and so an option to suppress all capitals
everywhere is essentially useless and should normally not be selected
without a very special reason. On the other hand, some .dxp files created
using DBT 10.4 or older, and which in fact contained only literary text, do
suppress capitals by using this table option rather than via the [caplv1]
command that was introduced in DBT 10.5. If we were to remove the option
from the Translation Tables menu, and such files were re-translated using
the new DBT, then by default they would suddenly show capitals, which would
cause another kind of confusion.

Despite this latter potential problem, which I suspect would be rare, I have
been tempted and am still tempted to remove the "without any capitals" table
option from the Translation Table menu and the words "with Capitals" from
the other "pre-2005" setting. That way, I think it would be clearer that the
table selection is no longer the way to control capitals -- the [caplv...]
command is the appropriate tool for that, usually set in the "initial" style
of the template that you use. I'll be glad to hear any and all opinions
about this.

Joe Sullivan

        Subject: RE: DBT Beta:templates missing
        Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:34:53 -0000
        Thread-Topic: DBT Beta:templates missing
        From: "David Spybey" <dspybey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        To: david@xxxxxxxxxx
        Reply-To: dbt-beta@xxxxxxxxxx
        In 10.5 there are 4 options to open a 'British/English' file. In
        there seems to be only 2. Once in a document there appear to be only
        options for translating and not the expected 4.
        David Spybey

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