[dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday morning review
- From: "Robert Deibler" <rdeibler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:05:40 -0500
I totally agree, Especially on the one about massive damage, It always amazed
me that characters take hundreds of points of damage and keep on ticket the
next day, no broken bones so swollen eyes, Healing spells I think are over
rated. Characters could get broken bones taht limited there abilities and yes
healing can help but would it take away the affects of taking 75 points just
like that and bam where back in the fight, Heal the spell yes cure spells in my
opinion no. I believe a character should be shaken or severally limited of they
take 90% + of there hit points, not down just shaken (- to hits things like
that) I would alos like to suggest encumbrence and equipment The last time I
played not to many people took noticed to that area, is it the same.. Weight
affects climbing and other skills teh same with armor. When Matt climbed in his
armor he would have had a major disadvantage. Hoe about spell components and
clreical spell focus items.
One last observation on my part will be on food, water and appreance. We are
under teh ground in an unknown world where are we getting our food from and our
water, Our characters must alos be looking like crap by know, equipment might
alos be running pretty ragged from use. things like that add a bit of reality
and a bit of suspense. Right now I don't feel like we are ina rush to get out
of teh underdark for any other reason beside we don't like it. technically we
could just hang out and wait for something to go by. Now if our food source and
water source were running out then ouch we best get moving.. (Some of these
suggestions can over burden a DM with little details but add some extra non
combat problems to characters)
-----Original Message-----
From: Damon Kline [mailto:damon.kline@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tue 12/3/2002 1:32 PM
To: 'dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Cc:
Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday morning review
Cool, I'll have to check them out.
Speaking of what John said about actions having consequences, as I've
been
reading through the emails, I have been thinking about the thing with
Kage
last night and the anti-magic cone dispelling his shape change. As a DM
that is something that I should have known. It also got me thinking
about
other rules, particularly in combat, that I don't use because I don't
have
the familiarity with them.
For instance, last night I remembered that when Kage cast his spell in
combat, it provoked an attack of opportunity. But, thinking on it now,
when
Tori fired on the guy who was attacking her in melee, she should have
provoked an attack of opportunity as well. Using a magic item may or
may
not provoke an attack of opportunity, but drinking a potion definitely
does
and I know that I have not enforced that rule in the past.
What I'm getting at is that I think to make the game more fun and make
the
characters think more strategically (like you don't already), I'm going
to
start implementing the rules more strictly. In an effort to help with
that,
I'm going to put together a "cheat sheet" similar to what I used when
we had
our Saturday Tiamat War battles. I'll make copies for everyone, so
that we
all have access to these things. I'll include things like how to
perform a
Trip action or a Bull Rush or a Disarm. I'll also include what
provokes an
attack of opportunity, what doesn't, etc.
I need to read up on the spells as well, so that I have a better idea of
what some of them do and what they don't do. I also need to be more
familiar with some of the items. As an example, Tori used a Tanglefoot
bag
when the party fought the creatures at the entrance to this cavern
complex.
At the time, I had no idea what it did and I basically used it as an
entangle spell. However, after reading it, I now know that you have to
roll
to hit with it and it only affects one creature.
Technically speaking, Cullen shouldn't be able to cast a light spell
inside
of a cylinder. You can cast the spell on something and it generates
light.
He could cast it on a coin and then put the coin in the cylinder, but
really, he shouldn't be able to just make the inside of the cylinder
glow.
(Unless he had some way to alter or shape the spell, such as a feat.)
I also want to play up taking or dishing out massive amounts of damage.
I
really liked how Matt portrayed Neris after he got thumped for a lot of
damage last night and I would like to encourage everyone to do that and
I'll
try to do that with the villains/NPC's as well.
In any event, this is something that I can institute as a DM, but I
think I
will need the help of the players here also. I know that John and Bobby
have a good grasp of the rules, so if you guys could help me out, that
would
be great. Jim and Matt, please don't take offense to me not asking
you, but
I know, as you have both admitted, that you haven't read the books,
don't
really know the rules and don't plan on reading the books any time soon.
So, since John and Bobby already have a good understanding of the rules,
their help would be appreciated. Like last night when John helped me
out
with the Kage thing and Bobby helped me out with the spell casting in
melee.
All good, helpful things that help to add a sense of drama and
intensity to
a fight.
Comments, suggestions?
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Deibler [mailto:rdeibler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 1:13 PM
To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday morning review
They created sheets with character models on, Pre written with feats
spells
and skills, Premade NPC and Villains on individual sheets.
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tue 12/3/2002 1:08 PM
To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc:
Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday morning review
What's a battle sheet?
Robert Deibler wrote:
> Yeah right this is just a DMs cool to keep the green hair elf
down. I think we should join a Characters Union to keep our rights free
from
the oppressive dictator called the DM.
>
> Did anyone see the new Battle sheets out on TSRs site, Just
thought I would point those out, they are kinda cool.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Damon Kline
[mailto:damon.kline@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tue 12/3/2002 12:45 PM
> To: 'dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Cc:
> Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday morning review
>
>
>
> Yeah, I think this group is well suited to take on the
task at hand and
> succeed. They are well designed and should be able
to do
this. I just want
> to make sure that as players, you don't think "Okay,
we
have to rush in and
> destroy all of the villains, so that we can get the
hell
out of this cursed
> underdark!". That may end up getting your characters
killed.
>
> Oh, next week should be tough, hopefully. I hope you
don't take it as a
> spanking for criticizing my DMing skills because I
would
never do such a
> thing as to have the party beset on all sides by
powerful
minions with
> nothing better to do than decorate their walls with PC
hides... was I
> rambling?
>
> Seriously though, I came up with an idea for next week
after I got home last
> night and I just want to say now, that it is not in
retaliation for any
> comments stated today. It is what I perceive as a
natural
progression of
> events, based on actions from the characters. We'll
see
how it goes. :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Deibler
[mailto:rdeibler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 12:35 PM
> To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday morning review
>
> I agree bad nights happen, the next nights usually
better,
if we were the
> type of people to let those nights affect us we would
definaltly not be
> playing as long as we have been... Face it there are
basiclly two types of
> bad night, Bad Dice nights, Bad roleplaying nights,
and
when those two are
> the same night ouch...I am looking forward to see how
the
group faces this
> beholder...
>
> Good point though Damon to many games I have played
make
it through by a
> thin thread of life, but in reality they should have
retreated regrouped and
> tried again versus keep bashing it out. Three of
fights
like that and they
> are ready for retirement.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Damon Kline
[mailto:damon.kline@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tue 12/3/2002 12:21 PM
> To: 'dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Cc:
> Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday morning
review
>
>
>
> Yes, it makes perfect sense. I didn't mean to
imply that she now
> trusts him
> implicitly and would risk her life for him. I
just meant that
> things have
> no changed, for better or worse.
>
> Let's be honest, last night was an off night.
Nothing more, nothing
> less.
> I wasn't completely in the game because I
wasn't
feeling well and
> that
> really hampered things.
>
> I also just realized that I forgot to have
Erebus
tell you something
> that I
> needed the group to know. Damn.
>
> We are going to have these every now and
then. I
think it is
> standing out
> so much because we don't often have these
kind of
nights with this
> group and
> since we only play once a week, it makes each
session that much more
> important.
>
> Hopefully I'll be feeling better next week
and I
can pull off my
> plan
> better.
>
> One thing I would caution though, in the
weeks and
months to come,
> as the
> party delves deeper into this and finds more
things out, please
> remember
> that retreat and regroup is an option. Too
often
we tend to think
> that the
> DM won't kill the entire party or that the
party
can take anything,
> especially with eight characters. (I know we
did
that with the
> Riders on a
> few occasions.) You may be able to do a
direct
assault and take out
> all of
> the bad guys in one shot and be done, but I
would
SERIOUSLY doubt
> that would
> happen. As players, just don't make the
mistake
of thinking that
> your
> characters will be able to triumph over
anything.
Unless your
> character
> thinks that! I'm not saying not to roleplay.
If
your character
> would
> legitimately not retreat from a certain
situation,
that is fine,
> just
> remember that it is an option. It's not so
much
that the party is
> being set
> up to fail, it's just that it may take more
than
one big hurrah to
> end this.
> :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Deibler
[mailto:rdeibler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 12:05 PM
> To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday morning
review
>
> It changes how Tori looks at him now but the
trust
factor is still
> not
> there. It was a bummer we had to leave when
we did
she just killed
> the one
> on Kage and it woudl have been intresting to
see
what would transire
> after
> that. The mood and time is lost for next week
but
it would have been
> intresting, Even though he is a "druid" she
still
assisted all other
> characters first then went to Kage, She is
looking
at his diffrently
> but at
> the same time he is still Kage and has done
nothing her book to mark
> a
> dramatic new start. His story could just be
that a
story. The fact
> he is a
> nature lover might be a a notch in teh
favorable
direction but there
> is teh
> last few days to get over and that real bad
first
impression. To her
> thi
> scould all be a test, and just because Ivan
checked him (if he is
> indeed a
> paladin), he did give off an evil tendency.
So she
will have to keep
> an eye
> on him. They really did not have time to talk
in
length to make any
> new
> assesment on each other.
>
> Make any sense...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Damon Kline
[mailto:damon.kline@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tue 12/3/2002 11:53 AM
> To: 'dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Cc:
> Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday
morning review
>
>
>
> I do agree with John, in that last
night
just didn't hit the
> mark as
> we
> usually do. Matt was not feeling
well and
I was getting the
> beginnings of
> what he has. (Which I now have in
full.)
:) I know that
> Jim was
> distracted due to issues at home and
at
work.
>
> Are these excuses for a very off
night?
Perhaps, but I
> believe that
> we have
> overcome other things like this in the
past. I think that
> the
> biggest
> problem that we faced was that I was
not
into it last night.
> Because I
> wasn't feeling well, I wasn't thinking
sharply. About
> half-way
> through the
> fight at the end, I realized that
John had
no characters
> there and
> was
> basically sitting there doing nothing.
That is certainly
> not the
> kind of
> time that I had in mind.
>
> Role-playing was off, big time, but I
think that was due to
> a few
> circumstances. Matt was not feeling
well
at all and that
> hurt his
> characters, because he couldn't bring
them
across as vividly
> as he
> normally
> does. With the exception of Neris
playing
up that wound in
> the
> fight, that
> was great. I think also that John
came in
with the
> expectation that
> a big
> revelation or change was going to
happen.
Understandable,
> since we
> did hype
> it up in that way throughout the week.
When he found out
> that it
> was just
> some stupid info from Erebus and Kage
getting turned into a
> druid
> again, he
> was let down and his characters showed
that. When Kage
> tried to
> explain
> things about what had happened,
Cullen and
Whilce were both
> like
> "Whatever,
> we're bored, who cares." I think
that was
a reflection of
> John's
> disappointment at the revelation.
Truly,
it was more of a
> revelation for
> Kage than for anyone else, but I
think it
will have some
> interesting
> effects
> on the group dynamic. It changes how
Tori
and Kage
> interact, it
> changes
> Kage's spell selections, his ability
to
swap spells for
> healing and
> his
> ability to turn undead. It will
affect
his personality,
> which
> affects the
> group as well. Now, these things are
more
subtle changes,
> so there
> really
> wasn't any big revelation. Perhaps it
shouldn't have been
> built up
> as much.
>
> In the end, it is my responsibility to
"take charge" and
> make sure
> everyone
> has a good time. Now, certainly even
if I
am doing a good
> job, if
> the
> players aren't into it, it hurts.
But, if
the DM isn't into
> it,
> unless you
> want a night of complete character
driven
role-playing, no
> one is
> going to
> have a good time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Johnathan Detrick
[mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002
11:43 AM
> To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday
morning review
>
>
> Yeah, I guess you could take the
e-mail as singling you
> out as
> the
> problem child. Not intentional,
that's
for sure. There
> isn't any
> way
> that one person could be responsible
for a
night like last
> night.
> It
> takes group suckiness to sink to the
depths we sank to.
> I'm sure that I probably had a
worse
time of it than
> anyone
> else,
> but then, I also spent the end of the
night doing nothing.
>
> jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> > Well, I feel a bit better, anyway.
If
> > you read your original email, it
sure
> > does look that way! :)
> >
> > To be honest, on two occasions last
> > night, I felt like I was focusing
too
> > much on your characters to the
> > detriment of Matt and Bobby. And I
> > didn't mean what I said about
"stopping
> > playing to download stuff"
seriously -
> > I was just amazed at what's
possible on
> > PCs in an area that I was never
aware
> > of.
> >
> > It wasn't personal - Karen suffers
from
> > my geek syndrome all the time. :)
> >
> > My biggest concern is identifying
areas
> > where we can improve to keep
everyone
> > interested - I can help by remaining
> > focused. I have one confession to
> > make, though - it's really tough
for me
> > to make the time to read the 3rd
> > edition books.
> >
> > If I could do that, I'd also be
> > certified on about half a dozen
> > technical areas as well. I'm just
> > interested in too much stuff, with
too
> > little time to read everything.
I'll
> > always have characters who can't
even
> > use their own feats -
> >
> > >
> > > I didn't mean to single you
out
> > as being the one that was a
> > > problem. When I was writing it,
when
> > I was there last night, and when I
> > > was driving home thinking about
it,
> > not once did I think, "Jim is the
> > > problem." It was not in my mind.
> > > You are correct, we do get
> > together to have fun. But in the
end, I
> > > did not have fun last night.
> > Usually, when I leave after we
play, I
> > > have had a blast. Last night,
when I
> > left, I had about three things I
> > > would rather have done with my
> > night. And that depressed me.
> > > Again, I don't single Jim out.
> > That wouldn't be accurate and it
> > > wouldn't be fair.
> > >
> > > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yes, you definitely got me on
that
> > > > one. I have to admit, Matt
made me
> > > > aware of something that really
blew
> > me
> > > > away - it was just an honest
> > reaction.
> > > > I was also a bit petrified
about job
> > > > security last night - a lame
excuse
> > in
> > > > a sense, but it was a
distraction.
> > > >
> > > > I noticed in your original email
> > that
> > > > Matt & Damon were exempted for
being
> > > > ill, and that Bobby did what you
> > > > expected - sorry for letting you
> > down.
> > > > But bottom line, aren't we just
> > getting
> > > > together to have fun anyway?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There was some
role-playing
> > > > towards the end of the evening,
but
> > it
> > > > > was not important enough to
> > warrant
> > > > my presence. I can at least
name
> > > > > one time you ignored me.
Cullen
> > was
> > > > addressing the group, and during
> > > > > that you and Matt started
looking
> > at
> > > > the computer and discussing it.
> > > > >
> > > > > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I agree it wasn't the best
> > night,
> > > > but I
> > > > > > thought it went OK, anyway.
Do
> > you
> > > > > > mean ignored role-playing
wise,
> > or
> > > > > > ignored story/interaction
wise?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At least on my part, I
remember
> > Kage
> > > > > > interacting with Cullen
about
> > the
> > > > fight
> > > > > > the last time, and Alturo
with
> > > > Cullen
> > > > > > about the use of
"fascinate".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kage also tried to start a
> > > > discussion
> > > > > > about Thor with Whilce -
> > mostly, I'm
> > > > > > trying to find out how I
ignored
> > > > you?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Synopsis:
> > > > > > > After the battle last
time
> > > > with
> > > > > > the driders, the Sigil was
> > > > > > > discussing the need for
> > > > leadership.
> > > > > > During the discussion,
Erebus
> > > > > > > appeared in an illusionary
> > form.
> > > > > > Apparently it was difficult
and
> > > > > > > painful for him to
manifest,
> > but
> > > > he
> > > > > > was able to inform the group
> > that
> > > > > > > they were not on Toril.
He
> > also
> > > > told
> > > > > > them that the menace they
had
> > been
> > > > > > > formed to defeat was on
the
> > same
> > > > > > plane they were. Before
more
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > > > revealed, Erebus appeared
to
> > > > shrivel
> > > > > > up and implode into a pile
of
> > > > > > > leaves. Those leaves then
> > formed
> > > > > > into the visage of the god
> > Fenrys,
> > > > who
> > > > > > > seized Kage, removing his
> > powers
> > > > as a
> > > > > > cleric, and restoring him
to a
> > > > > > > druid.
> > > > > > > Somewhat startled, the
> > party
> > > > > > decided to continue on their
> > way to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > ilithid camp, hoping to
learn
> > more
> > > > > > about how to reach the
surface,
> > as
> > > > > > > well as information on Lo
> > Pan, who
> > > > > > appeared to be worshipped on
> > this
> > > > > > > world as a deity.
Elizabeth
> > had
> > > > > > found some charts and notes
in
> > the
> > > > > > > captain's cabin on board
the
> > ship
> > > > the
> > > > > > Sigil had used when they
first
> > > > > > > appeared on this world,
which
> > > > > > suggested that the people
on the
> > > > ship
> > > > > > had
> > > > > > > also been followers of Lo
Pan.
> > > > > > Deciding he was the menace
the
> > > > group had
> > > > > > > been created to destroy,
they
> > > > needed
> > > > > > to learn all they could
about
> > him.
> > > > > > > The group continued
> > through
> > > > the
> > > > > > caverns, until they reached
a
> > side
> > > > > > > cavern. Tori, Neiris and
Kage
> > > > > > decided to quickly scout it
out,
> > > > while
> > > > > > > the others continued.
They
> > found
> > > > a
> > > > > > series of rooms, connected
> > > > > > > vertically by holes in the
> > floors
> > > > and
> > > > > > ceilings. Kage explored
them,
> > > > > > > only to encounter a
beholder.
> > > > > > Fleeing, he engaged some of
the
> > > > > > > beholder's minions in
combat,
> > and
> > > > he
> > > > > > managed to defeat them,
with the
> > > > > > > help of Tori and Neiris.
> > Soon the
> > > > > > party was reunited.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know that
> > discussing
> > > > last
> > > > > > night in great detail is
> > > > > > > necessary, or that anyone
> > really
> > > > > > wants to. In my opinion,
it was
> > > > > > > certainly the worst night
we
> > have
> > > > had
> > > > > > since we started playing the
> > Sigil
> > > > > > > again, and possibly the
worst
> > > > night
> > > > > > we have ever had playing the
> > Sigil
> > > > > > > (and I'm not
exaggerating).
> > For
> > > > me,
> > > > > > it boils down to one
sentence; I
> > > > > > > could have not shown up
last
> > > > night,
> > > > > > and it would have made no
> > > > > > > difference. I tried to
role-
> > play
> > > > > > with the group, and was
totally
> > > > > > > ignored (except for Bobby;
> > thank
> > > > you
> > > > > > for role-playing with me),
and
> > of
> > > > > > > course, I sat and did
nothing
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > final 70 minutes, while
everyone
> > > > > > > else fought the beholder's
> > > > minions.
> > > > > > > To be fair, Matt and
Damon
> > > > > > weren't feeling well. But
it
> > was a
> > > > > > > depressing night for me.
I
> > was
> > > > in a
> > > > > > great mood all day long, so
it
> > was
> > > > > > > quite a letdown for me.
> > > > > > > If anyone wishes to
> > discuss
> > > > last
> > > > > > night, please let me know.
> > > > > > > Otherwise, I'm going to
leave
> > it
> > > > > > at, "It sucked", and walk
away.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> -- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Ecartis --
> -- Type: application/ms-tnef
> -- File: winmail.dat
-- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Ecartis --
-- Type: application/ms-tnef
-- File: winmail.dat
-- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Ecartis --
-- Type: application/ms-tnef
-- File: winmail.dat
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