[dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday morning review
- From: Johnathan Detrick <jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:00:57 -0400
I don't think you give us enough credit. First of all, you should
know that the only evil characters we have are the Elite. I think you
remember that they don't number in the dozens. Secondly, we aren't
saying that every character we have should be a deity. What we are
saying is that this would be a good way to accomplish two tasks at
once. First, we eliminate some characters we have lying around, opening
the door for fresh ideas and new adventures. Second, we diversify the
pantheon, creating future possibilities for DMs and a more interesting
world.
As far as obscure duties go, I wouldn't want that either. However,
don't forget that the Forgotten Realms has some of the more obscure
deities you could imagine. The entire Powers and Pantheons book was
devoted to some of the most obscure deities imaginable, and if I
remember correctly, you loved that book! How do you have little cults
devoted to some demipower, if you don't have diversity? How does the
pantheon struggle for power, if there isn't diversity?
I was thinking along the same lines as you, until I was driving home
last night. Then, while role-playing a scene in my head, I realized
that the current group is not very diverse. There's a big need for
different personalities and portfolios, and when I realized that,
everything else made sense. Try and think of it that way.
jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> I don't have a problem with dumping old
> characters - I really just want to make
> sure that we create something viable.
> I just have an image in my mind of
> about a dozen evil deities with obscure
> duties just because we had a dozen evil
> characters.
>
> >
> > I think the problem is that you
> don't want to "dump" old
> > characters. Damon and I are hoping
> for a chance to start anew. It's
> > kind of like last night when we were
> talking and someone had said about
> > playing the characters as deities.
> In my opinion, that is a huge
> > mistake! We need to break from the
> past, not continue to rehash it. Do
> > I enjoy playing these older
> characters? Of course I do. That's
> all the
> > more reason to put them somewhere we
> can't play them anymore.
> > Which pantheons do you refer to
> that don't have a lot of deities?
> > Look at Norse or Greek mythology.
> Good grief, they had tons of
> > deities! Granted, the Forgotten
> Realms has more than most. But I think
> > pantheistic deities systems normally
> have a lot of deities, as they have
> > to encompass so many different
> portfolios.
> >
> > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >
> > > A word of caution - most pantheons
> > > don't have a "slew" of deities. My
> > > original vision was that characters
> > > involved in the quest for godhood in
> > > one way or another would be the only
> > > ones who became gods - their
> > > adventures, successes, and failures
> > > along the way would form the new
> > > world's mythology.
> > >
> > > I think we risk losing some
> > > distinctiveness and style points if
> we
> > > start to use this world as a retired
> > > character dumping ground.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes, the Black Legion will be
> > > evil deities. However, the good
> > > deities still
> > > > outnumber the evil ones quite a
> bit,
> > > so I believe there might be some
> room
> > > for
> > > > the Elite.
> > > > I like your idea of going
> through
> > > your characters and deciding what
> to do
> > > > with them. I plan on doing the
> same
> > > thing eventually. Perhaps today,
> > > perhaps
> > > > later.
> > > > Don't forget though, that we
> want
> > > this to make sense. Why would
> certain
> > > > characters be chosen as deities?
> > > Some of it may come out of the
> > > discussion
> > > > amongst the characters we have
> now.
> > > I have already followed the train of
> > > > conversation that I can see
> happening
> > > between Magnus, Dennis, Karvas,
> Gadget,
> > > > Quasit and the rest as they set up
> > > this world, and that's what got me
> > > thinking
> > > > last night that they may need more
> > > deities then they currently have.
> Their
> > > > thoughts would naturally go to
> those
> > > people they know. And Ao may decree
> > > that
> > > > more evil is needed as a balance,
> > > which could lead to the Elite. We
> shall
> > > > see...
> > > >
> > > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > He might make a very cool power
> of
> > > deceipt and misdirection.
> > > > >
> > > > > As for me, I'm looking to
> retire as
> > > many characters as possible. Some
> make
> > > > > sense as powers and some don't.
> > > One thing to consider though, is
> that
> > > the
> > > > > Riders aren't going to be the
> only
> > > deities right? Will the Black
> Legion be
> > > > > taking any of the "evil" spots?
> > > > >
> > > > > Could we throw some of the
> Elite in
> > > there as possible evil powers? I
> > > > > wouldn't mind putting all of my
> > > characters on this new world and
> > > starting
> > > > > over with brand new characters.
> > > There are some that make sense as
> > > possible
> > > > > powers, but then there are some
> > > that just don't. I don't see Erebus
> > > leaving
> > > > > his position as Magister. Even
> > > though he could potentially be a
> deity,
> > > he
> > > > > doesn't want to be in the Riders
> > > pantheon. I don't see Krodo
> wanting to
> > > be
> > > > > a deity either, although he
> would
> > > have a hell of a lot of fun!! Then
> > > there
> > > > > are characters like Phelan who
> > > might make a cool deity, but then
> he is
> > > still
> > > > > a playable character and there
> is a
> > > lot I can do with him. That sort of
> > > > > thing. Maybe, if I have time,
> I'll
> > > take my list of characters that
> John has
> > > > > provided and do some short write
> > > ups on who would make a good deity,
> who
> > > > > wouldn't and what else I see
> them
> > > as possibly doing.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002
> > > 7:52 AM
> > > > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re:
> Tuesday
> > > morning review
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey guys, glad everyone had a
> good
> > > > > time! I'm looking forward to
> > > defining
> > > > > the campaign world as well.
> For the
> > > > > most part, I think I'm going to
> > > keep my
> > > > > lower level characters mortal
> and
> > > make
> > > > > the higher level ones into
> powers -
> > > the
> > > > > only exception might be Marnie.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think she and Dove have
> something
> > > in
> > > > > common with both of them
> spending so
> > > > > many years trying to atone for
> evil
> > > > > siblings - it could be neat to
> see
> > > what
> > > > > they end up doing without those
> > > burdens.
> > > > >
> > > > > The only other high level
> character
> > > > > that I still have is
> Betelguize -
> > > and I
> > > > > never really played him enough
> to
> > > say
> > > > > that he'd make a good god of
> this or
> > > > > that. Then again, I'd rather
> retire
> > > > > him than play him -
> > > > > opinions/suggestions?
> > > > >
> > > > > > Oh, well that sucks. I didn't
> > > > > realize that. Oh well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Johnathan Detrick
> > > > > [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 15,
> 2002
> > > 10:51
> > > > > AM
> > > > > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re:
> > > Tuesday
> > > > > morning review
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No, I attached it. My
> theory
> > > is
> > > > > that we can't send files over
> the
> > > > > > website.
> > > > > > I'll send it individually.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think you forgot to
> attach the
> > > > > file... :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Johnathan Detrick
> > > > > [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 15,
> 2002
> > > > > 10:42 AM
> > > > > > > To:
> dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re:
> > > Tuesday
> > > > > morning review
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I was hoping that others
> > > might
> > > > > see the advantage in this.
> > > > > > > Basically, I believe we
> > > > > currently have about 15
> deities. I
> > > > > believe
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > Forgotten Realms has closer
> to
> > > 30.
> > > > > Obviously not every character is
> > > deity
> > > > > > > material, or interested in
> it,
> > > but
> > > > > it would be a way to slash the
> > > number
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > playable characters we have,
> > > while
> > > > > giving our new world depth and
> > > > > > interest.
> > > > > > > Something to think on.
> > > > > > > I was driving home last
> > > night,
> > > > > and like Damon, I was surprised
> by
> > > the
> > > > > > > fact
> > > > > > > that I wanted to get rid of
> more
> > > > > characters. As much as I had a
> > > blast, I
> > > > > > > suddenly realized that
> massive
> > > > > retirement might be our best
> > > option. It
> > > > > > > keeps
> > > > > > > characters "in play", at
> least
> > > as
> > > > > NPCs, and clears our slate to
> do new
> > > > > > > things.
> > > > > > > It also should result in our
> > > having
> > > > > a kick-ass campaign world, one
> we
> > > are
> > > > > > > interested in developing,
> since
> > > we
> > > > > all have a stake in it. Just an
> > > > > > idea...
> > > > > > > I have tons of things
> in my
> > > > > head, and I will be sending out
> e-
> > > mails
> > > > > > > soon.
> > > > > > > In the meantime, I attached
> the
> > > > > current master list of
> characters.
> > > It's
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > had for the Tiamat War, but
> I
> > > have
> > > > > kept it as current as possible.
> > > Check
> > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > characters and see who you
> think
> > > > > might be good for our purposes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I actually like that
> idea! I
> > > > > want a way to widdle down the
> > > number of
> > > > > > > > characters that I have out
> > > there
> > > > > on the planes and some of those
> > > > > > > characters
> > > > > > > > would make great
> deities. Off
> > > > > the top of my head, I could see
> > > Marcus
> > > > > > > taking
> > > > > > > > some sort of deity role
> under
> > > > > Faceous and it would be cool
> since
> > > this
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > originally the world he
> was
> > > from
> > > > > along with Sinjen, D'alleva,
> > > Valeria,
> > > > > > > Opal
> > > > > > > > and Nelik. On that note,
> I
> > > could
> > > > > see Sinjen taking some sort of
> role
> > > > > > > here.
> > > > > > > > Once he regains his honor.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Rikus would make a
> > > cool "Tempus-
> > > > > like" demi-power, even though
> he is
> > > only
> > > > > > > > like 3rd level. :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Characters I don't see
> being
> > > > > deities would be possibly Krodo,
> > > Phelan,
> > > > > > > > Erebus, Medean might make
> a
> > > cool
> > > > > god of illusions, but he would
> have
> > > to
> > > > > > > > share it with Delusia.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyway, there is much to
> > > > > discuss...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: Johnathan Detrick
> > > > > [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 15,
> > > 2002
> > > > > 10:11 AM
> > > > > > > > To:
> dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl]
> Re:
> > > > > Tuesday morning review
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I've been thinking of
> > > what to
> > > > > do with those characters as
> well. I
> > > > > > > > hadn't
> > > > > > > > thought of what you
> > > suggested; it
> > > > > might be interesting. Perhaps
> we
> > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > make
> > > > > > > > some of them into
> important
> > > > > personages on that world; it
> would
> > > be a
> > > > > > quick
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > easy way to gain NPCs.
> > > > > > > > However, I was also
> > > thinking
> > > > > of making some extra people
> deities.
> > > > > > > > Basically, what I would
> like
> > > to
> > > > > do is figure out how many
> deities we
> > > > > > want
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > pantheon. While I don't
> want
> > > to
> > > > > go crazy, I want to have enough
> so
> > > that
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > normal schmoe living on
> Planet
> > > > > Magnus (what, I'm sorry, was
> that
> > > name
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > approved by everyone?) has
> > > > > someone that they can turn to.
> The
> > > more
> > > > > > > deities
> > > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > have, the richer
> mythology we
> > > can
> > > > > create. I'm not talking about
> > > > > > everyone
> > > > > > > > (although Jim had said
> > > Hiernymous
> > > > > had an interest at one time),
> but
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > be some characters that
> they
> > > > > would "throw a bone" to, so to
> > > speak.
> > > > > > > > Something to
> > > > > > > > think about, and
> something we
> > > may
> > > > > want to consider as we talk this
> > > out.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I wholeheartedly agree
> on
> > > all
> > > > > points!!!! You would think that
> > > after
> > > > > > > > having
> > > > > > > > > played these characters
> for
> > > so
> > > > > long of a time, that it would be
> > > sad to
> > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > them go. But I have to
> > > admit
> > > > > that I am very excited about
> where
> > > they
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > and how they ended. I
> am
> > > very
> > > > > much looking forward
> to "starting
> > > anew"
> > > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > we start another
> campaign.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I still have an
> interest in
> > > a
> > > > > few of my characters that are
> being
> > > held
> > > > > > > > > captive by the Gods,
> but for
> > > > > the most part, I am much more
> > > interested
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > starting new
> characters. I
> > > > > have some thoughts on what to do
> > > with
> > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > characters out in the
> > > planes,
> > > > > but I'll save those for when we
> > > start
> > > > > > > > talking
> > > > > > > > > about it. Well, maybe
> I'll
> > > > > just throw something out there
> now
> > > so
> > > > > that
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > don't forget about it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No need to respond to
> this
> > > now,
> > > > > it can be covered later, I just
> > > wanted
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > say it before I forget
> it.
> > > Do
> > > > > you think that the Riders might
> > > invite
> > > > > > > > some,
> > > > > > > > > or all, of the people
> who
> > > > > participated in the Tiamat war
> to
> > > come
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > live
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > their new world? I
> don't
> > > think
> > > > > they would offer them any type
> of
> > > > > > power
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > anything, but since
> they did
> > > > > help the Riders in fighting
> Tiamat,
> > > > > > perhaps
> > > > > > > > > they might offer to let
> them
> > > > > live a free life on the new
> world
> > > > > instead
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > being stuck in
> servitude on
> > > > > some plane somewhere. Just a
> > > thought.
> > > > > It
> > > > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > > help us to provide some
> > > already
> > > > > known people to populate the
> world
> > > > > > with.
> > > > > > > > > They wouldn't get
> anything,
> > > it
> > > > > would basically be a "Hey,
> Sorrell,
> > > > > > > instead
> > > > > > > > > of lounging around out
> > > there in
> > > > > that plane, why don't you come
> and
> > > > > > live
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > our new world?" She
> agrees
> > > and
> > > > > gets plane shifted to the new
> world
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > is the end of the deal.
> > > She is
> > > > > on her own from there. Anyway,
> > > like I
> > > > > > > > said,
> > > > > > > > > we can pick it up later.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As for last night...Jim,
> > > > > awesome, awesome job!! I echo
> > > John's
> > > > > > > sentiments.
> > > > > > > > > I had a blast. I felt
> > > > > challenged through the fight,
> but
> > > not
> > > > > > > overwhelmed.
> > > > > > > > > It was dangerous, but
> not
> > > > > overly one-sided. If I had to
> pick
> > > a
> > > > > way
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Riders to "go out" that
> > > would
> > > > > be it. I enjoyed the story the
> > > whole
> > > > > > way
> > > > > > > > > through and while there
> were
> > > > > times when I was like "What the
> > > hell is
> > > > > > he
> > > > > > > > > doing to us?", it was
> never
> > > in
> > > > > a bad way, more of a "I didn't
> see
> > > THAT
> > > > > > > > > coming." kind of way.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So anyway, it was a lot
> of
> > > fun
> > > > > and you ended it perfectly.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks for a wonderful
> > > time!!!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message---
> --
> > > > > > > > > From: Johnathan Detrick
> > > > > [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October
> 15,
> > > 2002
> > > > > 9:46 AM
> > > > > > > > > To: Riders II
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl]
> > > Tuesday
> > > > > morning review
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As I mentioned
> before, I
> > > > > thought last night was awesome!
> > > Jim did
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > great job, and the night
> > > was a
> > > > > blast. Let's recap.
> > > > > > > > > The adventure to
> rescue
> > > > > Karvas and Saurotte was nice
> and not
> > > > > > > > > contrived, yet it didn't
> > > take
> > > > > up too much of the night. I
> was a
> > > > > > little
> > > > > > > > > disappointed that we
> > > couldn't
> > > > > play that smaller group more
> > > because I
> > > > > > > > > enjoyed them, but it
> would
> > > have
> > > > > been sheer folly on Jim's part
> to
> > > drag
> > > > > > > > > that out. Instead he
> made
> > > it
> > > > > just the right length, and it
> was
> > > great.
> > > > > > > > > As he has throughout
> > > this
> > > > > adventure, Jim kept me guessing
> the
> > > > > > entire
> > > > > > > > > night. I was not aware
> that
> > > > > the battle with the Black Legion
> > > was the
> > > > > > > > > end of the adventure. I
> > > > > assumed there would be more
> beyond
> > > them.
> > > > > > > > > Personally, I'm thrilled
> > > that
> > > > > he made them the climax. If the
> > > Riders
> > > > > > > > > were going to end their
> > > careers
> > > > > as adventurers, what is more
> > > > > > appropriate
> > > > > > > > > than a final battle with
> > > their
> > > > > most hated foes? It was the
> perfect
> > > > > > > > > capper for them, and
> bravo
> > > to
> > > > > Jim for using it as the
> endpiece.
> > > > > > > > > I sensed that Jim
> felt
> > > he
> > > > > wasn't using the Black Legion to
> > > their
> > > > > > > > > full potential last
> night,
> > > or
> > > > > that they were too easy.
> > > Considering he
> > > > > > > > > killed five characters
> > > > > throughout the fight, I'm not
> sure
> > > why
> > > > > he felt
> > > > > > > > > that way. The Black
> Legion
> > > was
> > > > > doing incredibly well. Damon
> made
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > statement that they
> never
> > > > > attacked us en masse. Thank
> God!
> > > > > > Personally,
> > > > > > > > > I think Jim used them
> > > > > exceedingly well. By having
> them
> > > > > attack us in
> > > > > > > > > waves it kept the group
> off
> > > > > balance. It also should be
> noted
> > > that
> > > > > two
> > > > > > > > > or three of them at a
> time
> > > was
> > > > > more than sufficient to keep 11
> > > members
> > > > > > > > > of the Riders busy. It
> > > made it
> > > > > seem like Amrikol had a master
> plan,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > made him seem much more
> > > like a
> > > > > brilliant strategist than if he
> had
> > > > > > used
> > > > > > > > > his power and simply
> tried
> > > to
> > > > > pummel the Riders into paste.
> > > > > > > > > If Jim shot himself
> in
> > > the
> > > > > foot anywhere, it was in
> killing so
> > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > people in the
> adventures of
> > > the
> > > > > past few weeks. Because an
> average
> > > of
> > > > > > > > > two characters per week
> were
> > > > > dying on adventures, Faceous had
> > > taken
> > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > Resurrections at 7th
> level.
> > > > > This enabled him to continually
> > > > > replenish
> > > > > > > > > the ranks of the Riders
> from
> > > > > the dead characters. If he had
> not
> > > done
> > > > > > > > > that, the Riders would
> have
> > > > > been in a lot more trouble.
> They
> > > would
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > survived, I think, but
> it
> > > would
> > > > > have been by the skin of their
> > > teeth.
> > > > > > > > > Anyway, the fight
> was
> > > > > great. It moved quite quickly;
> for
> > > > > someone
> > > > > > > > > that does not have as
> firm a
> > > > > grasp of the rules as he did in
> > > second
> > > > > > > > > edition, Jim kept things
> > > moving
> > > > > so smoothly. And considering
> that
> > > all
> > > > > > > > > of the players had more
> than
> > > > > one character, we moved quickly
> as
> > > well.
> > > > > > > > > There was a palpable
> sense
> > > of
> > > > > danger the entire time, and
> death
> > > was
> > > > > > > > > constantly present. I
> just
> > > > > can't say how much fun I
> thought it
> > > was.
> > > > > > > > > The was the perfect mix
> of
> > > > > danger and excitement. I didn't
> > > feel
> > > > > > > > > completely overwhelmed
> and I
> > > > > didn't feel like it was easy.
> It
> > > was
> > > > > > > > > great.
> > > > > > > > > One side note.
> Amrikol
> > > > > broke his Staff of Power in a
> > > > > retributive
> > > > > > > > > strike. I was
> surprised as
> > > > > hell, and said as much. I
> think Jim
> > > > > > thought
> > > > > > > > > I was fighting him on
> it. I
> > > > > was not. The villains are
> allowed
> > > to
> > > > > > > > > surprise me, and I am
> not
> > > privy
> > > > > to their thoughts. I was not
> trying
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > challenge Jim's ruling;
> I
> > > was
> > > > > just surprised. No doubt that
> was
> > > > > > > > > Amrikol's plan, as he
> > > probably
> > > > > assumed the Riders wouldn't
> think
> > > him
> > > > > > > > > capable of doing that.
> In
> > > that
> > > > > respect, it worked brilliantly.
> > > But I
> > > > > > > > > just wanted to make it
> > > clear I
> > > > > was not disagreeing with what
> Jim
> > > was
> > > > > > > > > doing; I was just
> amazed he
> > > did
> > > > > it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'll start sending
> out
> > > e-
> > > > > mail on the new gods and their
> world
> > > > > > today
> > > > > > > > > and through the week
> (expect
> > > > > them to start this afternoon).
> Jim
> > > did
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > bang-up job, and here's
> a
> > > thank
> > > > > you from me!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -- Binary/unsupported file
> > > stripped
> > > > > by Ecartis --
> > > > > > > -- Type: application/msword
> > > > > > > -- File: the list.doc
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
Other related posts:
