[dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday morning review
- From: jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx
- To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:46:02 US/Eastern
I don't have a problem with dumping old
characters - I really just want to make
sure that we create something viable.
I just have an image in my mind of
about a dozen evil deities with obscure
duties just because we had a dozen evil
characters.
>
> I think the problem is that you
don't want to "dump" old
> characters. Damon and I are hoping
for a chance to start anew. It's
> kind of like last night when we were
talking and someone had said about
> playing the characters as deities.
In my opinion, that is a huge
> mistake! We need to break from the
past, not continue to rehash it. Do
> I enjoy playing these older
characters? Of course I do. That's
all the
> more reason to put them somewhere we
can't play them anymore.
> Which pantheons do you refer to
that don't have a lot of deities?
> Look at Norse or Greek mythology.
Good grief, they had tons of
> deities! Granted, the Forgotten
Realms has more than most. But I think
> pantheistic deities systems normally
have a lot of deities, as they have
> to encompass so many different
portfolios.
>
> jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> > A word of caution - most pantheons
> > don't have a "slew" of deities. My
> > original vision was that characters
> > involved in the quest for godhood in
> > one way or another would be the only
> > ones who became gods - their
> > adventures, successes, and failures
> > along the way would form the new
> > world's mythology.
> >
> > I think we risk losing some
> > distinctiveness and style points if
we
> > start to use this world as a retired
> > character dumping ground.
> >
> > >
> > > Yes, the Black Legion will be
> > evil deities. However, the good
> > deities still
> > > outnumber the evil ones quite a
bit,
> > so I believe there might be some
room
> > for
> > > the Elite.
> > > I like your idea of going
through
> > your characters and deciding what
to do
> > > with them. I plan on doing the
same
> > thing eventually. Perhaps today,
> > perhaps
> > > later.
> > > Don't forget though, that we
want
> > this to make sense. Why would
certain
> > > characters be chosen as deities?
> > Some of it may come out of the
> > discussion
> > > amongst the characters we have
now.
> > I have already followed the train of
> > > conversation that I can see
happening
> > between Magnus, Dennis, Karvas,
Gadget,
> > > Quasit and the rest as they set up
> > this world, and that's what got me
> > thinking
> > > last night that they may need more
> > deities then they currently have.
Their
> > > thoughts would naturally go to
those
> > people they know. And Ao may decree
> > that
> > > more evil is needed as a balance,
> > which could lead to the Elite. We
shall
> > > see...
> > >
> > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > >
> > > > He might make a very cool power
of
> > deceipt and misdirection.
> > > >
> > > > As for me, I'm looking to
retire as
> > many characters as possible. Some
make
> > > > sense as powers and some don't.
> > One thing to consider though, is
that
> > the
> > > > Riders aren't going to be the
only
> > deities right? Will the Black
Legion be
> > > > taking any of the "evil" spots?
> > > >
> > > > Could we throw some of the
Elite in
> > there as possible evil powers? I
> > > > wouldn't mind putting all of my
> > characters on this new world and
> > starting
> > > > over with brand new characters.
> > There are some that make sense as
> > possible
> > > > powers, but then there are some
> > that just don't. I don't see Erebus
> > leaving
> > > > his position as Magister. Even
> > though he could potentially be a
deity,
> > he
> > > > doesn't want to be in the Riders
> > pantheon. I don't see Krodo
wanting to
> > be
> > > > a deity either, although he
would
> > have a hell of a lot of fun!! Then
> > there
> > > > are characters like Phelan who
> > might make a cool deity, but then
he is
> > still
> > > > a playable character and there
is a
> > lot I can do with him. That sort of
> > > > thing. Maybe, if I have time,
I'll
> > take my list of characters that
John has
> > > > provided and do some short write
> > ups on who would make a good deity,
who
> > > > wouldn't and what else I see
them
> > as possibly doing.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002
> > 7:52 AM
> > > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re:
Tuesday
> > morning review
> > > >
> > > > Hey guys, glad everyone had a
good
> > > > time! I'm looking forward to
> > defining
> > > > the campaign world as well.
For the
> > > > most part, I think I'm going to
> > keep my
> > > > lower level characters mortal
and
> > make
> > > > the higher level ones into
powers -
> > the
> > > > only exception might be Marnie.
> > > >
> > > > I think she and Dove have
something
> > in
> > > > common with both of them
spending so
> > > > many years trying to atone for
evil
> > > > siblings - it could be neat to
see
> > what
> > > > they end up doing without those
> > burdens.
> > > >
> > > > The only other high level
character
> > > > that I still have is
Betelguize -
> > and I
> > > > never really played him enough
to
> > say
> > > > that he'd make a good god of
this or
> > > > that. Then again, I'd rather
retire
> > > > him than play him -
> > > > opinions/suggestions?
> > > >
> > > > > Oh, well that sucks. I didn't
> > > > realize that. Oh well.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Johnathan Detrick
> > > > [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 15,
2002
> > 10:51
> > > > AM
> > > > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re:
> > Tuesday
> > > > morning review
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I attached it. My
theory
> > is
> > > > that we can't send files over
the
> > > > > website.
> > > > > I'll send it individually.
> > > > >
> > > > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think you forgot to
attach the
> > > > file... :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Johnathan Detrick
> > > > [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 15,
2002
> > > > 10:42 AM
> > > > > > To:
dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re:
> > Tuesday
> > > > morning review
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was hoping that others
> > might
> > > > see the advantage in this.
> > > > > > Basically, I believe we
> > > > currently have about 15
deities. I
> > > > believe
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Forgotten Realms has closer
to
> > 30.
> > > > Obviously not every character is
> > deity
> > > > > > material, or interested in
it,
> > but
> > > > it would be a way to slash the
> > number
> > > > > of
> > > > > > playable characters we have,
> > while
> > > > giving our new world depth and
> > > > > interest.
> > > > > > Something to think on.
> > > > > > I was driving home last
> > night,
> > > > and like Damon, I was surprised
by
> > the
> > > > > > fact
> > > > > > that I wanted to get rid of
more
> > > > characters. As much as I had a
> > blast, I
> > > > > > suddenly realized that
massive
> > > > retirement might be our best
> > option. It
> > > > > > keeps
> > > > > > characters "in play", at
least
> > as
> > > > NPCs, and clears our slate to
do new
> > > > > > things.
> > > > > > It also should result in our
> > having
> > > > a kick-ass campaign world, one
we
> > are
> > > > > > interested in developing,
since
> > we
> > > > all have a stake in it. Just an
> > > > > idea...
> > > > > > I have tons of things
in my
> > > > head, and I will be sending out
e-
> > mails
> > > > > > soon.
> > > > > > In the meantime, I attached
the
> > > > current master list of
characters.
> > It's
> > > > > one
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > had for the Tiamat War, but
I
> > have
> > > > kept it as current as possible.
> > Check
> > > > > > your
> > > > > > characters and see who you
think
> > > > might be good for our purposes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I actually like that
idea! I
> > > > want a way to widdle down the
> > number of
> > > > > > > characters that I have out
> > there
> > > > on the planes and some of those
> > > > > > characters
> > > > > > > would make great
deities. Off
> > > > the top of my head, I could see
> > Marcus
> > > > > > taking
> > > > > > > some sort of deity role
under
> > > > Faceous and it would be cool
since
> > this
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > originally the world he
was
> > from
> > > > along with Sinjen, D'alleva,
> > Valeria,
> > > > > > Opal
> > > > > > > and Nelik. On that note,
I
> > could
> > > > see Sinjen taking some sort of
role
> > > > > > here.
> > > > > > > Once he regains his honor.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rikus would make a
> > cool "Tempus-
> > > > like" demi-power, even though
he is
> > only
> > > > > > > like 3rd level. :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Characters I don't see
being
> > > > deities would be possibly Krodo,
> > Phelan,
> > > > > > > Erebus, Medean might make
a
> > cool
> > > > god of illusions, but he would
have
> > to
> > > > > > > share it with Delusia.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyway, there is much to
> > > > discuss...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Johnathan Detrick
> > > > [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 15,
> > 2002
> > > > 10:11 AM
> > > > > > > To:
dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl]
Re:
> > > > Tuesday morning review
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've been thinking of
> > what to
> > > > do with those characters as
well. I
> > > > > > > hadn't
> > > > > > > thought of what you
> > suggested; it
> > > > might be interesting. Perhaps
we
> > > > > could
> > > > > > > make
> > > > > > > some of them into
important
> > > > personages on that world; it
would
> > be a
> > > > > quick
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > easy way to gain NPCs.
> > > > > > > However, I was also
> > thinking
> > > > of making some extra people
deities.
> > > > > > > Basically, what I would
like
> > to
> > > > do is figure out how many
deities we
> > > > > want
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > pantheon. While I don't
want
> > to
> > > > go crazy, I want to have enough
so
> > that
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > normal schmoe living on
Planet
> > > > Magnus (what, I'm sorry, was
that
> > name
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > approved by everyone?) has
> > > > someone that they can turn to.
The
> > more
> > > > > > deities
> > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > have, the richer
mythology we
> > can
> > > > create. I'm not talking about
> > > > > everyone
> > > > > > > (although Jim had said
> > Hiernymous
> > > > had an interest at one time),
but
> > > > > there
> > > > > > > might
> > > > > > > be some characters that
they
> > > > would "throw a bone" to, so to
> > speak.
> > > > > > > Something to
> > > > > > > think about, and
something we
> > may
> > > > want to consider as we talk this
> > out.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I wholeheartedly agree
on
> > all
> > > > points!!!! You would think that
> > after
> > > > > > > having
> > > > > > > > played these characters
for
> > so
> > > > long of a time, that it would be
> > sad to
> > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > them go. But I have to
> > admit
> > > > that I am very excited about
where
> > they
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > and how they ended. I
am
> > very
> > > > much looking forward
to "starting
> > anew"
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > we start another
campaign.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I still have an
interest in
> > a
> > > > few of my characters that are
being
> > held
> > > > > > > > captive by the Gods,
but for
> > > > the most part, I am much more
> > interested
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > starting new
characters. I
> > > > have some thoughts on what to do
> > with
> > > > > those
> > > > > > > > characters out in the
> > planes,
> > > > but I'll save those for when we
> > start
> > > > > > > talking
> > > > > > > > about it. Well, maybe
I'll
> > > > just throw something out there
now
> > so
> > > > that
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > don't forget about it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No need to respond to
this
> > now,
> > > > it can be covered later, I just
> > wanted
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > say it before I forget
it.
> > Do
> > > > you think that the Riders might
> > invite
> > > > > > > some,
> > > > > > > > or all, of the people
who
> > > > participated in the Tiamat war
to
> > come
> > > > and
> > > > > > live
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > their new world? I
don't
> > think
> > > > they would offer them any type
of
> > > > > power
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > anything, but since
they did
> > > > help the Riders in fighting
Tiamat,
> > > > > perhaps
> > > > > > > > they might offer to let
them
> > > > live a free life on the new
world
> > > > instead
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > being stuck in
servitude on
> > > > some plane somewhere. Just a
> > thought.
> > > > It
> > > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > help us to provide some
> > already
> > > > known people to populate the
world
> > > > > with.
> > > > > > > > They wouldn't get
anything,
> > it
> > > > would basically be a "Hey,
Sorrell,
> > > > > > instead
> > > > > > > > of lounging around out
> > there in
> > > > that plane, why don't you come
and
> > > > > live
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > our new world?" She
agrees
> > and
> > > > gets plane shifted to the new
world
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > is the end of the deal.
> > She is
> > > > on her own from there. Anyway,
> > like I
> > > > > > > said,
> > > > > > > > we can pick it up later.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As for last night...Jim,
> > > > awesome, awesome job!! I echo
> > John's
> > > > > > sentiments.
> > > > > > > > I had a blast. I felt
> > > > challenged through the fight,
but
> > not
> > > > > > overwhelmed.
> > > > > > > > It was dangerous, but
not
> > > > overly one-sided. If I had to
pick
> > a
> > > > way
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > Riders to "go out" that
> > would
> > > > be it. I enjoyed the story the
> > whole
> > > > > way
> > > > > > > > through and while there
were
> > > > times when I was like "What the
> > hell is
> > > > > he
> > > > > > > > doing to us?", it was
never
> > in
> > > > a bad way, more of a "I didn't
see
> > THAT
> > > > > > > > coming." kind of way.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So anyway, it was a lot
of
> > fun
> > > > and you ended it perfectly.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks for a wonderful
> > time!!!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message---
--
> > > > > > > > From: Johnathan Detrick
> > > > [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October
15,
> > 2002
> > > > 9:46 AM
> > > > > > > > To: Riders II
> > > > > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl]
> > Tuesday
> > > > morning review
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As I mentioned
before, I
> > > > thought last night was awesome!
> > Jim did
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > great job, and the night
> > was a
> > > > blast. Let's recap.
> > > > > > > > The adventure to
rescue
> > > > Karvas and Saurotte was nice
and not
> > > > > > > > contrived, yet it didn't
> > take
> > > > up too much of the night. I
was a
> > > > > little
> > > > > > > > disappointed that we
> > couldn't
> > > > play that smaller group more
> > because I
> > > > > > > > enjoyed them, but it
would
> > have
> > > > been sheer folly on Jim's part
to
> > drag
> > > > > > > > that out. Instead he
made
> > it
> > > > just the right length, and it
was
> > great.
> > > > > > > > As he has throughout
> > this
> > > > adventure, Jim kept me guessing
the
> > > > > entire
> > > > > > > > night. I was not aware
that
> > > > the battle with the Black Legion
> > was the
> > > > > > > > end of the adventure. I
> > > > assumed there would be more
beyond
> > them.
> > > > > > > > Personally, I'm thrilled
> > that
> > > > he made them the climax. If the
> > Riders
> > > > > > > > were going to end their
> > careers
> > > > as adventurers, what is more
> > > > > appropriate
> > > > > > > > than a final battle with
> > their
> > > > most hated foes? It was the
perfect
> > > > > > > > capper for them, and
bravo
> > to
> > > > Jim for using it as the
endpiece.
> > > > > > > > I sensed that Jim
felt
> > he
> > > > wasn't using the Black Legion to
> > their
> > > > > > > > full potential last
night,
> > or
> > > > that they were too easy.
> > Considering he
> > > > > > > > killed five characters
> > > > throughout the fight, I'm not
sure
> > why
> > > > he felt
> > > > > > > > that way. The Black
Legion
> > was
> > > > doing incredibly well. Damon
made
> > the
> > > > > > > > statement that they
never
> > > > attacked us en masse. Thank
God!
> > > > > Personally,
> > > > > > > > I think Jim used them
> > > > exceedingly well. By having
them
> > > > attack us in
> > > > > > > > waves it kept the group
off
> > > > balance. It also should be
noted
> > that
> > > > two
> > > > > > > > or three of them at a
time
> > was
> > > > more than sufficient to keep 11
> > members
> > > > > > > > of the Riders busy. It
> > made it
> > > > seem like Amrikol had a master
plan,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > made him seem much more
> > like a
> > > > brilliant strategist than if he
had
> > > > > used
> > > > > > > > his power and simply
tried
> > to
> > > > pummel the Riders into paste.
> > > > > > > > If Jim shot himself
in
> > the
> > > > foot anywhere, it was in
killing so
> > > > > many
> > > > > > > > people in the
adventures of
> > the
> > > > past few weeks. Because an
average
> > of
> > > > > > > > two characters per week
were
> > > > dying on adventures, Faceous had
> > taken
> > > > > all
> > > > > > > > Resurrections at 7th
level.
> > > > This enabled him to continually
> > > > replenish
> > > > > > > > the ranks of the Riders
from
> > > > the dead characters. If he had
not
> > done
> > > > > > > > that, the Riders would
have
> > > > been in a lot more trouble.
They
> > would
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > > survived, I think, but
it
> > would
> > > > have been by the skin of their
> > teeth.
> > > > > > > > Anyway, the fight
was
> > > > great. It moved quite quickly;
for
> > > > someone
> > > > > > > > that does not have as
firm a
> > > > grasp of the rules as he did in
> > second
> > > > > > > > edition, Jim kept things
> > moving
> > > > so smoothly. And considering
that
> > all
> > > > > > > > of the players had more
than
> > > > one character, we moved quickly
as
> > well.
> > > > > > > > There was a palpable
sense
> > of
> > > > danger the entire time, and
death
> > was
> > > > > > > > constantly present. I
just
> > > > can't say how much fun I
thought it
> > was.
> > > > > > > > The was the perfect mix
of
> > > > danger and excitement. I didn't
> > feel
> > > > > > > > completely overwhelmed
and I
> > > > didn't feel like it was easy.
It
> > was
> > > > > > > > great.
> > > > > > > > One side note.
Amrikol
> > > > broke his Staff of Power in a
> > > > retributive
> > > > > > > > strike. I was
surprised as
> > > > hell, and said as much. I
think Jim
> > > > > thought
> > > > > > > > I was fighting him on
it. I
> > > > was not. The villains are
allowed
> > to
> > > > > > > > surprise me, and I am
not
> > privy
> > > > to their thoughts. I was not
trying
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > challenge Jim's ruling;
I
> > was
> > > > just surprised. No doubt that
was
> > > > > > > > Amrikol's plan, as he
> > probably
> > > > assumed the Riders wouldn't
think
> > him
> > > > > > > > capable of doing that.
In
> > that
> > > > respect, it worked brilliantly.
> > But I
> > > > > > > > just wanted to make it
> > clear I
> > > > was not disagreeing with what
Jim
> > was
> > > > > > > > doing; I was just
amazed he
> > did
> > > > it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'll start sending
out
> > e-
> > > > mail on the new gods and their
world
> > > > > today
> > > > > > > > and through the week
(expect
> > > > them to start this afternoon).
Jim
> > did
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > bang-up job, and here's
a
> > thank
> > > > you from me!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- Binary/unsupported file
> > stripped
> > > > by Ecartis --
> > > > > > -- Type: application/msword
> > > > > > -- File: the list.doc
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
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