[dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday morning critique
- From: Johnathan Detrick <jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:44:33 -0400
Perhaps Magnus can convince her. He's not too worried about it at
this point. He feels that first they get the power, then he recruits
the people that have doubts. But I can see him trying desperately to
talk her into it.
jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> True - Dennis would be a natural for
> this, as would someone like Carpathia.
> I think any character who has a strong
> inclination towards a quest or goal
> (say Dove, perhaps) or who has had a
> singluar, defining event would work
> really well.
>
> For that reason, I'm not sure how
> someone like Escrima would work - she's
> a very "unfinished" individual. Same
> with characters like Hieronymus (just
> looking at my own) - he's pretty
> inexperienced in the way of things, and
> still has a lot to learn.
>
> My biggest decision at this point is
> what to do with Ambrosia? I know, as
> her player, that she'll get sick of the
> tavern thing sooner or later. And I'll
> regret not retiring her in so great a
> way down the road. So how do I light a
> fire under her before it's too late? :)
>
> >
> > I understand your feelings with
> Quasit. Nadan also does not accompany
> the
> > others because of a lust for power.
> As I mentioned before, I do not intend
> to
> > have Nadan accompany the others to
> their (hopeful) new home as deities.
> He has
> > no desire to be a god. He is quite
> content serving one. He is performing
> this
> > quest because he wants to keep an eye
> on Magnus, and he is doing it for his
> > wife. He feels that she may want to
> partake of this power, and while he
> would
> > miss Dove dreadfully, he would
> encourage her to do it.
> > However, don't confuse the lack
> of a lust for power with a lack of a
> desire
> > to have the power of the divine.
> Faceous very much wants to complete this
> > quest, as does Zolkiir. They both
> want the power for their own uses.
> Faceous
> > believes that he can help people,
> offering them a second chance, in a way
> that
> > he would never be able to help them
> as a cleric of Tyr. Zolkiir wants it to
> > play around with new and more
> powerful magics. There is much to
> tempt the good
> > person as much as the neutral person
> in the power of the gods. I'm not
> saying
> > you should shoehorn Quasit into this
> (although I would like to see him
> become a
> > deity), but I am saying consider that
> being good, doesn't mean you don't want
> > power.
> >
> > Damon Kline wrote:
> >
> > > I absolutely love playing these
> guys!! But, as John said, it has to
> end.
> > > We will have other groups that can
> achieve this same sort of interaction,
> it
> > > just takes time.
> > >
> > > Jim, this has to be one of, if not
> THE, best plots you have ever DM'd. It
> > > has plenty of action, it is fast
> paced, it is complex to the point that
> > > players and characters are
> surprised often and the most important
> > > aspect...it is fun!! I really
> think you are doing a tremendous job.
> > >
> > > For my characters, Baish has been
> so easy to play, as he always has
> been. I
> > > can slip right into character with
> him and he is fun to play. I
> > > particularly enjoyed his
> interaction with Magnus last night as
> they seemed
> > > to have the same attitude. They
> almost compete to see who can be the
> most
> > > arrogant some times. :) Magnus
> always wins. :)
> > >
> > > My only struggle, if you want to
> call it that, is Quasit at this point.
> > > Last night Baish overshadowed
> Quasit, but a lot of that had to do
> with the
> > > fact that I just don't know how
> Quasit feels about all of this. It's
> weird.
> > > On one hand, he does want power.
> That is the whole reason he left
> > > Menzoberranzan. Males never rose
> to the heights of power that females
> did.
> > > Shelensia left with him because she
> didn't follow Lolth's edicts. However,
> > > as time has gone on, Quasit has
> found himself becoming more..."good"
> than
> > > neutral. I've actually found
> myself forcing him to not act as good,
> because
> > > I like the idea of the mysterious
> drow mage persona, who uses whatever
> means
> > > necessary to accomplish his goals.
> But, truthfully, his wife has rubbed off
> > > on him a lot and he isn't quite
> the "cut-throat" that he used to be.
> Then,
> > > having a child has also softened
> him. So, he's becoming more like Nadan,
> > > which is odd because the two of
> them used to be at odd's all the time!
> He
> > > isn't so much becoming a follower
> of a deity to the point that Nadan is,
> but
> > > he is becoming more in-tune with
> how his actions affect the world at
> large.
> > > This all stems from him traveling
> the planes and being "taught" a lesson
> by
> > > the Mad Thinker. Ever since the
> world where he fought his son, he has
> been
> > > different.
> > >
> > > Well, I have to go to a meeting.
> More on this later today perhaps, or
> > > tomorrow...
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Johnathan Detrick
> [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002
> 11:43 AM
> > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday
> morning critique
> > >
> > > The end of your e-mail had me
> expecting someone to say, "For answers
> > > to these, and other questions,
> watch the next episode of Soap." Which
> I
> > > suppose dates me horribly. :)
> > > Your comments about Ambrosia
> are well taken. Again, the characters
> > > that go along, will not get much
> play time. It's a big decision.
> > > I am very interested to see
> how, or if, Celane comes out of this.
> > > Will she survive? Will she want to?
> > >
> > > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > >
> > > > I was also very relieved to see
> how
> > > > things turned out last night.
> It's
> > > > funny - I was pretty worried that
> the
> > > > group would founder; it seemed
> like I
> > > > wasn't giving them enough info
> (hence
> > > > the Sunday night consult with
> Shawn).
> > > >
> > > > It's a neat situation, with a lot
> of
> > > > possibilities. One consequence
> of this
> > > > past week won't come to light
> until
> > > > next time, and it will be very
> > > > upsetting to a certain NPC.
> > > >
> > > > Another character, Ambrosia,
> faces an
> > > > uncertain future - she absolutely
> LOVES
> > > > her inn, and wants to spend the
> rest of
> > > > her life running it. What impact
> will
> > > > that have on Magnus's plans?
> > > >
> > > > And then there's Quasit. How far
> will
> > > > he go to see the group succeed;
> what
> > > > justifies right or wrong for him?
> > > >
> > > > And then Dennis. Will he be
> raised
> > > > from the dead? And what will
> become of
> > > > Celane? Why was she working with
> such
> > > > awful people to do something
> apparently
> > > > so noble?
> > > >
> > > > Things that make you go hmm...
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, I sent out what
> happened.
> > > > Now how did I feel about it?
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was worried all week. I
> had no
> > > > idea how to go about finding
> > > > > Celane or the Black Legion, or
> the
> > > > power we were searching for.
> Since I
> > > > > was playing the leader, this
> could be
> > > > a problem. Scrying for them was
> > > > > all I could think of, and that
> rarely
> > > > works, and seems like a cop-out.
> > > > > Luckily for me, Jim had a
> plan.
> > > > I know I mentioned this last
> night,
> > > > > but I want to mention it
> again. It's
> > > > probably, in my opinion, the best
> > > > > thing Jim has done as a DM
> since he
> > > > started DMing again, and he's
> done a
> > > > > lot of cool stuff. See, he
> could
> > > > have let the party flounder. He
> would
> > > > > have been well within his
> rights to
> > > > put the party in Ambrosia's tavern
> > > > > and make them come up with a
> plan.
> > > > Instead, he gave Mileena a little
> > > > > bit of information. It wasn't
> a lot,
> > > > it wasn't nearly enough to make it
> > > > > seem as though Mileena was there
> > > > simply to drag the characters from
> > > > > place to place. No, it was just
> > > > enough to get the party moving,
> and
> > > > > that's all we needed. Jim
> didn't
> > > > shove the party into his plot. He
> > > > > gently prodded. And that was
> the
> > > > beauty of it.
> > > > > By acting as he did, the
> night
> > > > didn't seem contrived. I never
> got
> > > > > the opinion that we were being
> forced
> > > > into one action or another.
> > > > > Mileena seemed like just another
> > > > character, one that any of us
> could be
> > > > > running. Everything flowed
> > > > incredibly smoothly.
> > > > > More important, Jim kept me
> > > > guessing. Did I guess some of the
> > > > > things? Sure, as soon as we
> > > > approached the tower of the ruler
> of
> > > > > Ribcage and saw the dead guards
> and
> > > > gate melted off it's hinges, I
> > > > > figured it was the Black
> Legion. But
> > > > I never could figure out what
> > > > > Dennis was doing in Ribcage,
> until he
> > > > told us he was working with Celane
> > > > > and had been distracting
> Amrikol.
> > > > Even though Jim mentioned Dr.
> Klaw as
> > > > > being interested when we started
> > > > this, I had forgotten about him,
> so
> > > > > that took me by surprise. And
> the
> > > > final twist, with Celane being
> used
> > > > > by the previously deceased
> deities,
> > > > floored me. It certainly makes
> this
> > > > > "race for the gold" more
> interesting
> > > > and more complicated.
> > > > > By the way, I do want to
> point
> > > > out, that Nadan was somewhat short
> > > > > with Dennis last night,
> frustrated
> > > > that he and Celane felt that
> using a
> > > > > plan that had input from both
> Amrikol
> > > > and Dr. Klaw was a bad idea.
> > > > > Please understand that Nadan was
> > > > frustrated. To me, it was
> perfectly in
> > > > > character.
> > > > > So, the plot was great, and
> Jim
> > > > handled the two fights well. I
> know
> > > > > that it may seem I don't expect
> my
> > > > characters to die. That isn't
> true.
> > > > > Magnus and Nadan don't expect
> to die
> > > > (especially Magnus). I know that
> > > > > death could claim them at any
> time.
> > > > Jim kept me on the edge of my seat
> > > > > during the fights. I honestly
> wasn't
> > > > sure how the fight outside Ribcage
> > > > > would go, and I was especially
> > > > concerned during the donnybrook
> with the
> > > > > deities. I am so not looking
> forward
> > > > to dealing with them again. Jim
> > > > > insinuated last night that
> Talos was
> > > > gone for good. I hope so!
> > > > > As for the characters, they
> were
> > > > great! It's just like old times
> > > > > with the Riders! I loved the
> > > > interaction. Jim's right in that
> > > > > Carpathia may feel left out to
> an
> > > > extent, but Carpathia is a loner,
> and
> > > > > Matt is playing that to the
> hilt.
> > > > All of the characters were played
> > > > > well, as was Mileena, who
> seemed to
> > > > fit right in. Talosaard was very
> > > > > quiet, but that fits his
> personality
> > > > as well. The interaction between
> > > > > Magnus and Baish was great (they
> > > > think alike a lot of the time)
> and I
> > > > > always love seeing Quasit in
> action.
> > > > I'm not too busy today, so I may
> > > > > send a more detailed e-mail
> focusing
> > > > on the characters.
> > > > > I have to say, I am
> enjoying this
> > > > group tremendously. However, I am
> > > > > more than ready for this to be
> done,
> > > > so we can permanently retire them.
> > > > > They are a blast, but that's
> always
> > > > been the problem, hasn't it? They
> > > > > are too much fun to let go.
> But we
> > > > need to. We can create parties
> that
> > > > > are just as cool (witness the
> > > > Fellowship of Sundyr or the
> Sigil) and
> > > > we
> > > > > need to. We need to broaden our
> > > > horizons.
> > > > > Along those lines, I would
> > > > encourage everyone to be careful
> when we
> > > > > end this plot. If the Riders do
> > > > become dieites, I do see that as
> the
> > > > > end of the line. We may see
> them as
> > > > gods, or even avatars, but I don't
> > > > > expect us to ever play them as a
> > > > party again. Matt is right, we
> may
> > > > > change our minds (don't we
> always?),
> > > > but I wouldn't elevate your
> > > > > character if you don't want to
> lose
> > > > them. Just a thought.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> >
> >
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