By that same token, I'm going to apply that theology to the Sigil. Not that I'm going to rush them along, but I want to play it somewhat fast paced to add to the sense of tension. Once they figure out where they are and what they need to do, I think the tension will present itself, but I'll hope to add to it with the pace of the game. -----Original Message----- From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 4:09 PM To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Thursday Morning Review I tend to agree with Damon. I think, by limiting our time with these groups, it may actually heighten tension and drama. Damon Kline wrote: > In my opinion, I think that is the better option. I think we need to limit > the amount of time we spend on these adventures. We have already decided > that we are going to get to a new campaign and start fresh. In order to do > that, we need to clear the table of the existing campaigns. Right now, > those are The Sigil, The Riders and The Mini-Riders. Technically we started > the Chosen again for nights that you weren't around due to volunteering, but > we can still keep them for occasions when we can't reschedule for some > reason. > > If you can clear off the Riders and the Mini-Riders in the next few months, > then I can finish off the Sigil after that. At that point, we will have no > campaigns on our plate and we can start fresh. > > I think that in the end, it will make things much easier for us and much > more enjoyable. > > Plus, I kind of like the idea of a mad dash towards the goal! > > -----Original Message----- > From: jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 11:38 AM > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Thursday Morning Review > > No - I think my plot is taking on a > life of its own. It could just as > easily work as a more straightforward, > but far more dangerous, race to the > finish. Is that the better option > here? This is pretty much still in my > head - let me know what the group > consensus is! > > > > > Hmm. While everything sounds > exciting, I thought that we had agreed > > to put the Riders on the back burner > and just do them for a few months. > > I thought we were going to run a > shorter plot for them, and then just do > > short "movies" for them after that? > I can't say that I'm real > > interested in a prolonged Riders > campaign. Am I confused? Did I > > misunderstand what we talked about > before? > > > > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > > > > > Hmm. Good question! It's going to > > > take a while. > > > > > > For starters, the low-level guys > have > > > to complete their quest for Sonya's > > > soul. That will take 1-2 sessions > for > > > the current leg (possibly an extra > > > one). > > > > > > Then there will be 1-3 sessions for > the > > > next leg of that mission. > > > > > > After, they're looking at Sinjen's > > > situation, I presume. That's hard > to > > > predict right now - it depends on > what > > > they do. To be safe, figure 4 > weeks. > > > > > > And then there's Ilana and Kilian. > Not > > > so easy to predict - future more > > > cloudy, it is. > > > > > > All together, if we just did that > > > group, we'd have plenty to play with > > > until Christmas. > > > > > > By the way, John - is it a safe > > > assumption that Magnus will stop > > > copying spells for Master Lothar? > > > > > > OK, the other groups. We have no > > > active plans to DM Marnie's inquest > for > > > now, but that may change - fast - > > > depending on Keith's availability. > And > > > we'd also deal at that time with > Zann, > > > or whoever Keith may be interested > in > > > using at the time. > > > > > > The "higher powered" group could > take a > > > couple of directions. If they > decide > > > to track down Celane, it could take > > > several weeks. If they decide to > try > > > to locate the world on their own, it > > > could also take a while. They > could of > > > course try other options - hunting > down > > > the Black Legion, or learning more > > > about Dr. Klaw, for example. I'd > give > > > the whole shebang at least several > > > months to finish. > > > > > > All told, I could easily keep DMing > > > until at least next summer - > > > > > > > I am honestly looking forward to > it. > > > I do have one question though. Do > you > > > > have any idea how long it will > take > > > you to get both of these groups to a > > > > point where you would consider > > > them "finished"? > > > > > > > > I am just curious, because I would > > > like to know how much time I have > until > > > I > > > > start DMing the Sigil to their > > > conclusion. Also, has anyone > thought > > > anymore > > > > on what we are going to do once > the > > > Sigil is completed? I know we won't > > > > really need to decide that until > we > > > get there, but assuming that Jim > DM's > > > > for a few more months and then I > DM > > > the Sigil to their conclusion, I > foresee > > > > them ending sometime before the > end > > > of the year next year. Possibly > around > > > > this time frame. So, we most > likely > > > have a year to decide what we want > to > > > > do, but I was just curious if > anyone > > > had any ideas. Especially with the > > > > idea that some of the Riders > might be > > > deities by that point, we could even > > > > play around with the new world. > > > > > > > > Anyway, I wanted to get a heads up > > > from you Jim, just so I can continue > > > > planning with a time frame in > mind of > > > when I'll need to be ready by. > > > > > > > > I can't wait to play either of the > > > groups together again. The mini- > riders > > > > have an interesting mix of > characters > > > and personalities that makes them > very > > > > fun to play. The riders are > always > > > interesting, especially because > they can > > > > kick some major tuckus and they > will > > > have to if they want to make it to > the > > > > prize. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx > > > [mailto:jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx] > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 > > > 10:17 AM > > > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: > Thursday > > > Morning Review > > > > > > > > Yes, next week should definitely > be > > > > more action-oriented. I'd really > > > like > > > > to continue the adventure to help > > > Sonya > > > > find her soul. When that is done, > > > the > > > > group will be heading back to the > > > Green > > > > Mill - an excellent time to > > > springboard > > > > to the other group if we want to. > > > That > > > > might be at the end of next week, > but > > > > the following week at the latest. > > > > > > > > > Okay, I'm back! I missed the > > > > beginning of the conversation, > but I > > > can > > > > > participate now. I echo John's > > > > sentiments about the individual > role > > > > > playing. It does tend to take > away > > > > from the momentum of the night and > > > from > > > > > the mood that is set. If two > > > people > > > > aren't into the game, then they > can't > > > > > help establish the mood and end > up > > > > detracting from it. > > > > > > > > > > I did enjoy watching Mylena go > > > around > > > > and collect the Riders though. > It was > > > > > fun to watch and Jim did a great > > > job > > > > of making it entertaining. I > would > > > say > > > > > that it would have been more > fun to > > > > get to play the characters > together. > > > > > Certainly that is more fun than > > > > watching other people role-play > for > > > long > > > > > periods of time. > > > > > > > > > > I can also say that over the > past > > > two > > > > weeks my enthusiasm has lessened, > > > > > simply because we didn't really > get > > > > much of a chance to work with the > > > > > characters together as a > group. We > > > > are still getting things "set up" > and > > > > > the set up stage is the most > > > tedious > > > > and least exciting from a group > > > dynamic > > > > > standpoint. But, I look > forward to > > > > the next few weeks as we get to > see > > > the > > > > > groups in action. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Johnathan Detrick > > > > [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 05, > 2002 > > > > 1:21 PM > > > > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: > > > Thursday > > > > Morning Review > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have certainly given her > > > tons > > > > of style. I'm interested to see > > > > > her in action with the Riders. > > > > > > > > > > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I have to say also that I > really > > > > had no > > > > > > idea if Mylena was going to > > > > succeed - > > > > > > especially at the end. All > of my > > > > > > expectations had Rig doing > all of > > > > the > > > > > > work, and her doing the > > > > transportation > > > > > > afterwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > She could have easily been > killed > > > by > > > > > > Baish, if things had gone > > > > differently, > > > > > > or especially by Nadan. > Gadget > > > > never > > > > > > got the chance, and I was > really > > > > > > relieved that he didn't. I > don't > > > > even > > > > > > want to think about it if > Marnie > > > and > > > > > > Escrima weren't my own > characters > > > > near > > > > > > the end there. > > > > > > > > > > > > On a personal note, my > favorite > > > > moment > > > > > > (one of them, anyway), was > when > > > > Nadan > > > > > > made a very real threat to > finish > > > > her > > > > > > off and she said "Hold on a > > > minute, > > > > I'm > > > > > > thinking." Very Swordfish, if > > > you > > > > ask > > > > > > me! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh thank God! I feel so > > > much > > > > > > better! I wanted to make > sure you > > > > > > > understand that I truly > respect > > > > your > > > > > > skills as a DM, but I did > want to > > > > > > > make my feelings known. > > > > > > > I thought that Mylena > > > > returning > > > > > > was you trying to get us to > do it > > > > > > > ourselves, and I almost did. > > > > > > However, Magnus had used > Mylena > > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > first place just so he > didn't > > > > have to > > > > > > do it himself. He figured, > if he > > > > > > > started going after people > now, > > > > why > > > > > > bother to use her at all? > > > > > > > Anyway, I already feel > > > better > > > > > > about next week. I'm anxious > to > > > > play > > > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah, you're right. I'm > really > > > > > > > > committed to the long-term > > > > story arc > > > > > > > > that I envision, but it's > > > > important > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > me that the foundation > not be > > > > > > > > undermined to rush to the > good > > > > > > stuff. > > > > > > > > Last night, I went in > > > assuming > > > > that > > > > > > > > after the first two or > three > > > > > > characters > > > > > > > > got free, they'd get > together > > > > with > > > > > > > > Magnus and take care of > the > > > > rest on > > > > > > > > their own (eliminating any > > > need > > > > for > > > > > > > > individual roleplaying). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's one reason why > Mylena > > > > came > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > partway thru - she thought > > > that > > > > the > > > > > > > > group only needed her to > get > > > > them > > > > > > > > started, and they'd take > it > > > from > > > > > > > > there. Still, though, it > was > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > to me that the characters > come > > > > > > together > > > > > > > > in a plausible way - after > > > all, > > > > they > > > > > > > > were put on the planes in > a > > > > manner > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > made it tough to leave, > and I > > > > didn't > > > > > > > > want to make that seem > like a > > > > > > trivial > > > > > > > > limitation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't foresee any need > for > > > > nights > > > > > > > > like the last few down the > > > > road - > > > > > > > > actually, if it does > happen, > > > > I'll be > > > > > > > > banging my head on the > wall > > > to > > > > keep > > > > > > > > things moving - but it > does > > > seem > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > it's becoming the norm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess the stakes are so > > > high > > > > in > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > we're doing with > > > the "powerful" > > > > > > group, > > > > > > > > that I want to make sure > the > > > > group > > > > > > > > earns their victory - > warts > > > and > > > > all. > > > > > > > > The last thing we need is > for > > > > the > > > > > > > > characters to easily > obtain > > > > godhood, > > > > > > > > and then for us as > players to > > > > find > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > whole thing so > unsatisfying > > > > that we > > > > > > > > look for ways to make them > > > > mortal > > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Definitely open to > > > suggestions - > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > actually planning on > emailing > > > > Shawn > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > > soon (hee hee) to get guru > > > level > > > > > > advice > > > > > > > > on my long term plans, but > > > it's > > > > > > > > important most of all that > > > > everyone > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > having fun when we get > > > > together - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, I'm going to > start > > > by > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > honest. I have been > debating > > > > how to > > > > > > > > > respond to Jim's e-mail, > > > > which may > > > > > > > > seem odd, since I am the > cold > > > > > > hearted > > > > > > > > > bastard of the group > and I > > > > usually > > > > > > > > have no problem being > > > honest. > > > > My > > > > > > > > > concern is that I know > that > > > > Jim > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > superior DM, and I don't > want > > > > this > > > > > > > > > taken the wrong way. > That > > > > being > > > > > > > > said, I didn't enjoy last > > > night > > > > as > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > as I had hoped to. > > > > > > > > > I think the thing > that > > > > really > > > > > > > > killed me was the second > week > > > > in a > > > > > > row > > > > > > > > > of individual role- > > > playing. > > > > It > > > > > > seems > > > > > > > > to be a common thread for > us, > > > > and > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how we > became > > > > caught > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the trap. Three weeks > ago, > > > > before > > > > > > > > > the Riders fought Rig, > Jim > > > had > > > > > > > > brought the subject up > with > > > > me. I > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > advised against it. He > > > > decided > > > > > > to do > > > > > > > > it anyway, and he did some > > > > > > > > > individual role-playing > with > > > > > > Ilana, > > > > > > > > Kilian, Valeria and the > > > group. > > > > And > > > > > > > > > it went very well. Jim > > > jumped > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > one player to another and > > > kept > > > > the > > > > > > > > > sessions short. He had > > > > proved me > > > > > > > > wrong; individual role- > > > playing > > > > can > > > > > > > > > work, and he went on to > DM > > > > one of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > best nights of D&D we have > > > had > > > > in > > > > > > > > > a long time. He also > left > > > me > > > > > > feeling > > > > > > > > incredibly positive and > > > excited > > > > > > > > > about the future. I > > > believe, > > > > if > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > had suggested it, I would > have > > > > > > > > > called off work, and > told > > > > Brad I > > > > > > > > wasn't coming home, and > then > > > > > > barricaded > > > > > > > > > myself in the basement > for > > > the > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > three weeks straight to > see > > > > what Jim > > > > > > > > > had planned. > > > > > > > > > Then last week > > > happened. > > > > We > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > almost all individual > role- > > > > playing, > > > > > > > > > and it caused the night > to > > > > slow > > > > > > > > down. I know that when I > > > left > > > > last > > > > > > > > > week, my enthusiasm had > > > > dimmed a > > > > > > > > little, but I was still > > > excited. > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, last > night > > > was > > > > > > more of > > > > > > > > the same. I had hoped > that > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > would quickly gather the > > > party > > > > > > and we > > > > > > > > could be off. Instead, > each > > > > > > > > > individual character was > > > > gathered. > > > > > > > > It took almost all night. > > > And > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > > afraid it drained my > > > > enthusiasm > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > I'm still looking > > > forward > > > > to > > > > > > > > where Jim is going with > this > > > > plot. > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > > we saw three weeks ago, > he > > > > can DM > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > adventure better than > most, > > > and > > > > > > > > > deliver us a great > night of > > > > role- > > > > > > > > playing. But I fear that > the > > > > last > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > weeks have leeched some > of > > > the > > > > > > > > momentum he had going. > It's > > > > going > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > more work on everyone's > > > part > > > > to > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > us back to the fever > pitch we > > > > were > > > > > > > > > in a few weeks ago. > > > > > > > > > Comments? Please? > I > > > > don't > > > > > > > > intend to be overly > critical > > > of > > > > > > Jim. I > > > > > > > > > know how hard it can be > to > > > DM > > > > (I > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > the person that has had > more > > > > than > > > > > > > > > one campaign that I put > a > > > lot > > > > of > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > into shot out from under > me > > > when > > > > > > > > > the players said that > they > > > > weren't > > > > > > > > interested), and I know > Jim > > > can > > > > pull > > > > > > > > > it together. But the > last > > > few > > > > > > weeks > > > > > > > > just haven't worked for > me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know about > > > everyone > > > > > > else, > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > had a good time last > > > > night! It > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > odd night, in a way, > as > > > > only one > > > > > > > > player > > > > > > > > > > was doing anything at > any > > > > given > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > for most of it. I > didn't > > > > intend > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > at first, but somehow > it > > > > worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gist was Magnus > sent > > > > > > Mylena, his > > > > > > > > > > alternate-reality > daughter > > > > > > (believe > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > or not, it all makes > > > sense > > > > from > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > campaign perspective) > > > > > > to "capture" > > > > > > > > > > certain Riders who > were > > > > > > imprisoned > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > the outer planes. If > > > they > > > > left > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > their own free will, > or > > > > > > knowingly, > > > > > > > > > > there was a greater > > > chance > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > gods > > > > > > > > > > becoming offended or > > > > realizing > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > happening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And since the gods > have no > > > > > > > > influence in > > > > > > > > > > the city of Sigil, and > > > since > > > > > > Mylena > > > > > > > > > > technically never > existed > > > in > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > > characters' version of > > > > > > > > the "realms", it > > > > > > > > > > seemed plausible that > her > > > > > > activities > > > > > > > > > > could go unnoticed > for a > > > > period > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end, Mylena > > > > succeeded in > > > > > > > > > > capturing most of the > > > Riders > > > > > > she was > > > > > > > > > > sent for after a very > > > > difficult > > > > > > > > > > struggle. She > exhausted > > > > Rig, > > > > > > my now > > > > > > > > > > very-deceased evil > 17th > > > > level > > > > > > > > > > gladiator, five > powerful > > > > > > mercenary > > > > > > > > > > githyanki, and almost > > > > herself > > > > > > to do > > > > > > > > > > it. She used sheer > power, > > > > > > > > treachery, > > > > > > > > > > luck, or whatever it > > > would > > > > take > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > pull > > > > > > > > > > it off, and it was > fun to > > > > see in > > > > > > > > action > > > > > > > > > > since I didn't have a > > > > definite > > > > > > > > outcome > > > > > > > > > > in mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought about > forcing > > > > > > characters > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > be captured last > night, > > > but > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > end, > > > > > > > > > > I would be helping the > > > > Riders to > > > > > > > > win. > > > > > > > > > > And that wouldn't be > > > fair. > > > > It > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > sound like a "yeah > sure" > > > > thing, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > group's rivals (like > > > > Celane, the > > > > > > > > Black > > > > > > > > > > Legion, and maybe Dr. > > > Klaw) > > > > all > > > > > > > > have a > > > > > > > > > > chance to succeed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the Riders ended up > > > > > > prisoners of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > Dustmen faction in > Sigil's > > > > > > Mortuary > > > > > > > > (as > > > > > > > > > > Mylena is a member > there - > > > > > > > > apparently, > > > > > > > > > > she's at least partly > a > > > > > > > > necromancer). > > > > > > > > > > They were released > > > > > > simultaneously > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > gas-filled iron > caskets, > > > and > > > > > > > > proceeded > > > > > > > > > > to deal with their > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end, Magnus > got a > > > > core > > > > > > group > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > agree to his crusade. > > > Some > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > characters offered to > help > > > > > > Marnie > > > > > > > > (my > > > > > > > > > > swashbuckler) search > for > > > her > > > > > > > > husband, > > > > > > > > > > Surrote, who had gone > > > > missing > > > > > > on his > > > > > > > > > > own and couldn't be > > > located > > > > by > > > > > > > > Mylena. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ambrosia preferred to > > > remain > > > > > > > > retired, > > > > > > > > > > running her new inn, > and > > > > > > the "lower > > > > > > > > > > level" riders that we > > > used > > > > last > > > > > > week > > > > > > > > > > are still doing their > own > > > > thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that is where we > > > ended. > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts/comments? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >