Hmm. While everything sounds exciting, I thought that we had agreed to put the Riders on the back burner and just do them for a few months. I thought we were going to run a shorter plot for them, and then just do short "movies" for them after that? I can't say that I'm real interested in a prolonged Riders campaign. Am I confused? Did I misunderstand what we talked about before? jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > Hmm. Good question! It's going to > take a while. > > For starters, the low-level guys have > to complete their quest for Sonya's > soul. That will take 1-2 sessions for > the current leg (possibly an extra > one). > > Then there will be 1-3 sessions for the > next leg of that mission. > > After, they're looking at Sinjen's > situation, I presume. That's hard to > predict right now - it depends on what > they do. To be safe, figure 4 weeks. > > And then there's Ilana and Kilian. Not > so easy to predict - future more > cloudy, it is. > > All together, if we just did that > group, we'd have plenty to play with > until Christmas. > > By the way, John - is it a safe > assumption that Magnus will stop > copying spells for Master Lothar? > > OK, the other groups. We have no > active plans to DM Marnie's inquest for > now, but that may change - fast - > depending on Keith's availability. And > we'd also deal at that time with Zann, > or whoever Keith may be interested in > using at the time. > > The "higher powered" group could take a > couple of directions. If they decide > to track down Celane, it could take > several weeks. If they decide to try > to locate the world on their own, it > could also take a while. They could of > course try other options - hunting down > the Black Legion, or learning more > about Dr. Klaw, for example. I'd give > the whole shebang at least several > months to finish. > > All told, I could easily keep DMing > until at least next summer - > > > I am honestly looking forward to it. > I do have one question though. Do you > > have any idea how long it will take > you to get both of these groups to a > > point where you would consider > them "finished"? > > > > I am just curious, because I would > like to know how much time I have until > I > > start DMing the Sigil to their > conclusion. Also, has anyone thought > anymore > > on what we are going to do once the > Sigil is completed? I know we won't > > really need to decide that until we > get there, but assuming that Jim DM's > > for a few more months and then I DM > the Sigil to their conclusion, I foresee > > them ending sometime before the end > of the year next year. Possibly around > > this time frame. So, we most likely > have a year to decide what we want to > > do, but I was just curious if anyone > had any ideas. Especially with the > > idea that some of the Riders might be > deities by that point, we could even > > play around with the new world. > > > > Anyway, I wanted to get a heads up > from you Jim, just so I can continue > > planning with a time frame in mind of > when I'll need to be ready by. > > > > I can't wait to play either of the > groups together again. The mini-riders > > have an interesting mix of characters > and personalities that makes them very > > fun to play. The riders are always > interesting, especially because they can > > kick some major tuckus and they will > have to if they want to make it to the > > prize. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx] > > Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 > 10:17 AM > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Thursday > Morning Review > > > > Yes, next week should definitely be > > more action-oriented. I'd really > like > > to continue the adventure to help > Sonya > > find her soul. When that is done, > the > > group will be heading back to the > Green > > Mill - an excellent time to > springboard > > to the other group if we want to. > That > > might be at the end of next week, but > > the following week at the latest. > > > > > Okay, I'm back! I missed the > > beginning of the conversation, but I > can > > > participate now. I echo John's > > sentiments about the individual role > > > playing. It does tend to take away > > from the momentum of the night and > from > > > the mood that is set. If two > people > > aren't into the game, then they can't > > > help establish the mood and end up > > detracting from it. > > > > > > I did enjoy watching Mylena go > around > > and collect the Riders though. It was > > > fun to watch and Jim did a great > job > > of making it entertaining. I would > say > > > that it would have been more fun to > > get to play the characters together. > > > Certainly that is more fun than > > watching other people role-play for > long > > > periods of time. > > > > > > I can also say that over the past > two > > weeks my enthusiasm has lessened, > > > simply because we didn't really get > > much of a chance to work with the > > > characters together as a group. We > > are still getting things "set up" and > > > the set up stage is the most > tedious > > and least exciting from a group > dynamic > > > standpoint. But, I look forward to > > the next few weeks as we get to see > the > > > groups in action. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Johnathan Detrick > > [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 > > 1:21 PM > > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: > Thursday > > Morning Review > > > > > > > > > You have certainly given her > tons > > of style. I'm interested to see > > > her in action with the Riders. > > > > > > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > I have to say also that I really > > had no > > > > idea if Mylena was going to > > succeed - > > > > especially at the end. All of my > > > > expectations had Rig doing all of > > the > > > > work, and her doing the > > transportation > > > > afterwards. > > > > > > > > She could have easily been killed > by > > > > Baish, if things had gone > > differently, > > > > or especially by Nadan. Gadget > > never > > > > got the chance, and I was really > > > > relieved that he didn't. I don't > > even > > > > want to think about it if Marnie > and > > > > Escrima weren't my own characters > > near > > > > the end there. > > > > > > > > On a personal note, my favorite > > moment > > > > (one of them, anyway), was when > > Nadan > > > > made a very real threat to finish > > her > > > > off and she said "Hold on a > minute, > > I'm > > > > thinking." Very Swordfish, if > you > > ask > > > > me! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh thank God! I feel so > much > > > > better! I wanted to make sure you > > > > > understand that I truly respect > > your > > > > skills as a DM, but I did want to > > > > > make my feelings known. > > > > > I thought that Mylena > > returning > > > > was you trying to get us to do it > > > > > ourselves, and I almost did. > > > > However, Magnus had used Mylena > in > > the > > > > > first place just so he didn't > > have to > > > > do it himself. He figured, if he > > > > > started going after people now, > > why > > > > bother to use her at all? > > > > > Anyway, I already feel > better > > > > about next week. I'm anxious to > > play > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Nah, you're right. I'm really > > > > > > committed to the long-term > > story arc > > > > > > that I envision, but it's > > important > > > > to > > > > > > me that the foundation not be > > > > > > undermined to rush to the good > > > > stuff. > > > > > > Last night, I went in > assuming > > that > > > > > > after the first two or three > > > > characters > > > > > > got free, they'd get together > > with > > > > > > Magnus and take care of the > > rest on > > > > > > their own (eliminating any > need > > for > > > > > > individual roleplaying). > > > > > > > > > > > > That's one reason why Mylena > > came > > > > back > > > > > > partway thru - she thought > that > > the > > > > > > group only needed her to get > > them > > > > > > started, and they'd take it > from > > > > > > there. Still, though, it was > > > > important > > > > > > to me that the characters come > > > > together > > > > > > in a plausible way - after > all, > > they > > > > > > were put on the planes in a > > manner > > > > that > > > > > > made it tough to leave, and I > > didn't > > > > > > want to make that seem like a > > > > trivial > > > > > > limitation. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't foresee any need for > > nights > > > > > > like the last few down the > > road - > > > > > > actually, if it does happen, > > I'll be > > > > > > banging my head on the wall > to > > keep > > > > > > things moving - but it does > seem > > > > like > > > > > > it's becoming the norm. > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess the stakes are so > high > > in > > > > what > > > > > > we're doing with > the "powerful" > > > > group, > > > > > > that I want to make sure the > > group > > > > > > earns their victory - warts > and > > all. > > > > > > The last thing we need is for > > the > > > > > > characters to easily obtain > > godhood, > > > > > > and then for us as players to > > find > > > > the > > > > > > whole thing so unsatisfying > > that we > > > > > > look for ways to make them > > mortal > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > Definitely open to > suggestions - > > I'm > > > > > > actually planning on emailing > > Shawn > > > > B. > > > > > > soon (hee hee) to get guru > level > > > > advice > > > > > > on my long term plans, but > it's > > > > > > important most of all that > > everyone > > > > is > > > > > > having fun when we get > > together - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, I'm going to start > by > > > > being > > > > > > honest. I have been debating > > how to > > > > > > > respond to Jim's e-mail, > > which may > > > > > > seem odd, since I am the cold > > > > hearted > > > > > > > bastard of the group and I > > usually > > > > > > have no problem being > honest. > > My > > > > > > > concern is that I know that > > Jim > > > > is a > > > > > > superior DM, and I don't want > > this > > > > > > > taken the wrong way. That > > being > > > > > > said, I didn't enjoy last > night > > as > > > > much > > > > > > > as I had hoped to. > > > > > > > I think the thing that > > really > > > > > > killed me was the second week > > in a > > > > row > > > > > > > of individual role- > playing. > > It > > > > seems > > > > > > to be a common thread for us, > > and > > > > > > > I'm not sure how we became > > caught > > > > in > > > > > > the trap. Three weeks ago, > > before > > > > > > > the Riders fought Rig, Jim > had > > > > > > brought the subject up with > > me. I > > > > had > > > > > > > advised against it. He > > decided > > > > to do > > > > > > it anyway, and he did some > > > > > > > individual role-playing with > > > > Ilana, > > > > > > Kilian, Valeria and the > group. > > And > > > > > > > it went very well. Jim > jumped > > > > from > > > > > > one player to another and > kept > > the > > > > > > > sessions short. He had > > proved me > > > > > > wrong; individual role- > playing > > can > > > > > > > work, and he went on to DM > > one of > > > > the > > > > > > best nights of D&D we have > had > > in > > > > > > > a long time. He also left > me > > > > feeling > > > > > > incredibly positive and > excited > > > > > > > about the future. I > believe, > > if > > > > Jim > > > > > > had suggested it, I would have > > > > > > > called off work, and told > > Brad I > > > > > > wasn't coming home, and then > > > > barricaded > > > > > > > myself in the basement for > the > > > > next > > > > > > three weeks straight to see > > what Jim > > > > > > > had planned. > > > > > > > Then last week > happened. > > We > > > > did > > > > > > almost all individual role- > > playing, > > > > > > > and it caused the night to > > slow > > > > > > down. I know that when I > left > > last > > > > > > > week, my enthusiasm had > > dimmed a > > > > > > little, but I was still > excited. > > > > > > > Unfortunately, last night > was > > > > more of > > > > > > the same. I had hoped that > Jim > > > > > > > would quickly gather the > party > > > > and we > > > > > > could be off. Instead, each > > > > > > > individual character was > > gathered. > > > > > > It took almost all night. > And > > I'm > > > > > > > afraid it drained my > > enthusiasm > > > > even > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > I'm still looking > forward > > to > > > > > > where Jim is going with this > > plot. > > > > As > > > > > > > we saw three weeks ago, he > > can DM > > > > an > > > > > > adventure better than most, > and > > > > > > > deliver us a great night of > > role- > > > > > > playing. But I fear that the > > last > > > > two > > > > > > > weeks have leeched some of > the > > > > > > momentum he had going. It's > > going > > > > to be > > > > > > > more work on everyone's > part > > to > > > > get > > > > > > us back to the fever pitch we > > were > > > > > > > in a few weeks ago. > > > > > > > Comments? Please? I > > don't > > > > > > intend to be overly critical > of > > > > Jim. I > > > > > > > know how hard it can be to > DM > > (I > > > > am > > > > > > the person that has had more > > than > > > > > > > one campaign that I put a > lot > > of > > > > work > > > > > > into shot out from under me > when > > > > > > > the players said that they > > weren't > > > > > > interested), and I know Jim > can > > pull > > > > > > > it together. But the last > few > > > > weeks > > > > > > just haven't worked for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know about > everyone > > > > else, > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > had a good time last > > night! It > > > > was > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > odd night, in a way, as > > only one > > > > > > player > > > > > > > > was doing anything at any > > given > > > > time > > > > > > > > for most of it. I didn't > > intend > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > at first, but somehow it > > worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gist was Magnus sent > > > > Mylena, his > > > > > > > > alternate-reality daughter > > > > (believe > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > or not, it all makes > sense > > from > > > > a > > > > > > > > campaign perspective) > > > > to "capture" > > > > > > > > certain Riders who were > > > > imprisoned > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > the outer planes. If > they > > left > > > > of > > > > > > > > their own free will, or > > > > knowingly, > > > > > > > > there was a greater > chance > > of > > > > the > > > > > > gods > > > > > > > > becoming offended or > > realizing > > > > what > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > happening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And since the gods have no > > > > > > influence in > > > > > > > > the city of Sigil, and > since > > > > Mylena > > > > > > > > technically never existed > in > > > > these > > > > > > > > characters' version of > > > > > > the "realms", it > > > > > > > > seemed plausible that her > > > > activities > > > > > > > > could go unnoticed for a > > period > > > > of > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end, Mylena > > succeeded in > > > > > > > > capturing most of the > Riders > > > > she was > > > > > > > > sent for after a very > > difficult > > > > > > > > struggle. She exhausted > > Rig, > > > > my now > > > > > > > > very-deceased evil 17th > > level > > > > > > > > gladiator, five powerful > > > > mercenary > > > > > > > > githyanki, and almost > > herself > > > > to do > > > > > > > > it. She used sheer power, > > > > > > treachery, > > > > > > > > luck, or whatever it > would > > take > > > > to > > > > > > pull > > > > > > > > it off, and it was fun to > > see in > > > > > > action > > > > > > > > since I didn't have a > > definite > > > > > > outcome > > > > > > > > in mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought about forcing > > > > characters > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > be captured last night, > but > > in > > > > the > > > > > > end, > > > > > > > > I would be helping the > > Riders to > > > > > > win. > > > > > > > > And that wouldn't be > fair. > > It > > > > may > > > > > > > > sound like a "yeah sure" > > thing, > > > > but > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > group's rivals (like > > Celane, the > > > > > > Black > > > > > > > > Legion, and maybe Dr. > Klaw) > > all > > > > > > have a > > > > > > > > chance to succeed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the Riders ended up > > > > prisoners of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > Dustmen faction in Sigil's > > > > Mortuary > > > > > > (as > > > > > > > > Mylena is a member there - > > > > > > apparently, > > > > > > > > she's at least partly a > > > > > > necromancer). > > > > > > > > They were released > > > > simultaneously > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > gas-filled iron caskets, > and > > > > > > proceeded > > > > > > > > to deal with their > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end, Magnus got a > > core > > > > group > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > agree to his crusade. > Some > > > > other > > > > > > > > characters offered to help > > > > Marnie > > > > > > (my > > > > > > > > swashbuckler) search for > her > > > > > > husband, > > > > > > > > Surrote, who had gone > > missing > > > > on his > > > > > > > > own and couldn't be > located > > by > > > > > > Mylena. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ambrosia preferred to > remain > > > > > > retired, > > > > > > > > running her new inn, and > > > > the "lower > > > > > > > > level" riders that we > used > > last > > > > week > > > > > > > > are still doing their own > > thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that is where we > ended. > > > > > > > > Thoughts/comments? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >