Tori could work as a leader, since she has some great qualities for it. I just wonder if her intense emotions might not land the party in some deep trouble. jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > I think Kage does work well as a leader > (he may be the most effective leader > that I've played), but he's slipping in > that role. Originally, he would have > started things off correctly with Tori > and Ivan. But he's slipping - he knows > the appropriate way a leader should > behave, but it's become tired to him. > > For example, on first meeting Tori, he > came across deliberately as aloof and > uninterested. He considered > approaching her by saying, > > "Tori, it's nice to meet you. I'm > almost intimidated, as this entire > group speaks words of praise about you > night and day. I am Kage Selden; your > friends have asked me to serve as their > strategist and leader for some time > now. I hope you are able to help us > with our current situation." > > But he was like, "nah - forget that! > it's not worth the trouble." Classic > sign of a leader who's run his course - > after all, he keeps reminding himself > that he's not a nice person, and he has > a quest to get back to after all. > > I'm mostly going into his character > this deeply to indicate things that > your characters should pick up on, > since they've known him this long - > he's definitely in a different mindset > than before his absence. > > Personally, I have no expectations as > to whether he'll lead the group again - > I'm still reeling from the unexpected > directions things went last night! My > only interest at this point in my D&D > career is to try and guess how such > people would act in such situations. > > OK, enough rambling. Maybe you pointed > something out, John, that makes perfect > sense - Kage and Tori are very > similar. Maybe she would make a great > replacement? > > > I've been thinking a lot about > the future leader of the Sigil. I > > think I attach more importance to the > leader of the group than some of > > the other players, but I feel that > the leader helps to set the tone for > > the campaign. Imagine if Ambrosia > had led the Riders during their > > formative years rather than Magnus. > Would the campaign have had the > > same flavor? Gone the same > directions? What about Cassius? > Karvas? > > Jaran? In each case, I believe the > group would have gone in a different > > way than it did. Likewise, depending > on who leads the Sigil, the party > > may have a different tone. > > Of the eight people in the party, > some of them have a lot of > > potential as leaders, while others > don't have much potential at all. My > > experience in real life, is that > given an oportunity to lead, some > > people will rise to the occassion, > and some people will fall apart. > > Following is my observations on the > characters and my thoughts on how > > they would do as a leader. I have > rated them on a scale of 1 to 10 as a > > leader. 1 is the worst leader in the > world (like General Custer or any > > Republican) and a 10 is the best > leader (like Alexander the Great or > > Magnus Xavier). > > > > Elizabeth (1) is probably the > worst choice for leader, and I would > > suggest that she would feel the same > way. She doesn't have a lot of > > experience in the sort of adventures > that the Sigil engage in. She > > usually tries to stay out of the way > in combat, and I don't think she > > would want to give her position away > by yelling to the rest of the group > > when she had orders. And I'm not yet > convinced that she wouldn't sell > > out the rest of the group to save her > own skin. > > It was interesting last night to > see that Elizabeth does indeed have > > information she has not shared with > the party. How will the Sigil react > > to that when they find out? Will > they feel betrayed? Enlightened? It > > probably depends on what the > information is and how and when she > > discloses it. We also saw some inner > fire during her argument with > > Cullen, which we hadn't seen before. > She again demonstarted some of her > > spririt when she took on the drider, > which was surprising. And I was > > very interested when she began > beating the dead ones, her frustration > > overwhelming her. It will be > fascinating to see how she progresses. > > She was already an outsider in the > group, and now that her closest ally > > (Cullen) has seemingly betrayed her > (by not supporting her attempt to > > convince the group not to fight the > mind flayers), I'm curious where she > > will turn. > > > > Whilce (4) wouldn't make nearly > the leader that Kage thinks he > > might. Whilce makes decisions > quickly, which can be great for a > leader, > > but in Whilce's case, its because he > doesn't bother to think things > > through before he does them. He does > stay in the thick of things, but > > that doesn't mean that he would make > a good leader. Whilce is way too > > concerned with having fun and > enjoying himself, always looking for the > > next new experience, to keep the > party safe. He would gladly march the > > group into deadly danger, just to see > what might happen. > > Whilce is necessary to the group, > though, even if he isn't the > > leader. With the group so often > frustrated and unhappy, or perhaps just > > tense, Whilce provides a source of > happiness and amusement to the > > group. He's always in a good mood, > and that has to rub off on the > > others. He gets along with everyone > in the group, even if some of them > > do regard him as mentally > uncompentent. He's not stupid. He > just wants > > to have fun and experience things, > and thinking gets in the way > > sometimes. Last night was a perfect > example. There was no way he was > > going to stand behind the mushrooms > while Kage talked to the duergar. > > He wanted to go out, and he waited > until he had an excuse (flimsy as it > > was) to get involved. He looked > stupid, but he was actually just > > bored. Watch his reactions some > time. The longer the party has gone > > without excitement, and the more > restrained he has to be, the more > > riduculous he acts and the more he > tries to get the party involved in > > something he deems more interesting > than what they have been doing. > > > > Alturo (5) has a lot of great > qualities about him. He's a fast > > thinker and very creatve, which is > great for a leader. He doesn't have > > any real enemies in the party, which > is a plus. He's usually in the > > thick of the fight, which is > helpful. However, he tends to be very > > focused on himself, and not the rest > of the group. Now don't get me > > wrong, he's not selfish or > egocentric. But he's very caught up in > what > > he is doing, and doesn't always give > his attention to what is going on > > around him. He also tends to be very > focused on his goddess and his > > goals, making him a little less > suited than he otherwise might be. > > The other problem with Alturo as > a leader? The party tends to think > > of him as a joke. I'm not completely > sure why that is. Part of it, I > > berlieve, is our tendency to > marginalize the short races. We don't > > usually have a lot of gnomes, > halflings and dwraves around, and when > we > > do, they tend to be less serious. > The voice Jim uses for Alturo also > > serves to make him less than > serious. The reason that this confuses > me > > is vbecause Alturo has shown time and > time again to be the most > > devastatingly effective member of the > party. Bar none. Given the > > choice, I'd rather have Alturo on my > side than anyone else. He has more > > options than any other character in > the group, and always seems to have > > an out for any situaiton. With the > absence of a mage, Alturo seems to > > be our magical muscle. At the same > time, he also does more healing than > > anyone in the party. Alturo fufills > so many different party functions > > it is amazing. He rarely gets badly > hurt, and he is everywhere he needs > > to be. Yet we treat him like a > joke. Go figure. > > > > Neiris (6) would make a great > leader, except for two reasons. The > > first is the fact that he doesn't > want the job (but then, who does?). > > The bigger reason is that he is a > quiet, circumpsect man who often keeps > > his opinions to himself. Sadly, > that's the direct opposite of the > > qualitiy he would need to lead the > Sigil. > > Neiris probably commands more > respect than anyone else in the > > group. I would say, of all the > characters, he is the one that all of > > the group likes and respects. He > knows combat well, and has a good > > tactical sense. He is not overly > emotional and is certainly the most > > stable person in the Sigil. All of > these combine to make him one hell > > of a leader, except that I just don't > think he would exert any authority > > over the others. He might have a > good idea or have a sharp plan, but > > would he tell the others and expect > them to follow it? No. Besides, > > Neiris tends to find a nice quiet > corner in a fight, somewhere he can > > pelt the opposition with arrows while > remaining relatively safe. That > > would make it difficult for him to > lead, as shouting orders would tend > > to give away his position, thus > reducing his effectiveness. > > I'm very happy that Matt seems to > have taken Neiris where he wants > > him. In some ways though, I feel > sorry for Neiris. After all, when > > Pierce left the group, Neiris took > over as their archer, and was doing a > > find job at it. He had found his > niche and was filling it. Then Tori > > returned, and all of a sudden Neiris > had a rival for position of party > > archer. Not only that, but Neiris > was the scout, and now Tori also > > threatened that position. It could > have been a very interesting > > position for the two of them, and an > intense compeition could have shot > > up. Instead, true to the personality > that we have come to know, Neiris > > welcomed Tori with open arms, and > they have proven to be very > > complementary, making a very > effective team. > > > > Tori (7) has a lot of potential > as a leader. She has the tactical > > skill, and she knows how to deploy > forces. She's respected (I think) as > > a warrior, which is a big plus. And > she's tough as nails. However, she > > tends to be very emotional, often > letting her heart steal away with her > > common sense in battle. Her > overwhelming hatred of her chosen foes, > > along with her intense hatred of > Kage, make her a little unstable, and > > prone to making decisions that may > not be thought out. She would make a > > good leader, but she could lead the > party to disaster if she can't keep > > a tighter rein on her feelings. No > matter if she leads or not, I think > > it's obvious Tori will always play a > large role in organizing the group > > for a fight. She's certainly never > been shy about speaking her mind, > > and since her ideas are often > excellent, any good leader is going to > > listen to them. However, she is also > incredibly independant, which > > could be a large problem for any > leader. Perhaps taking over the group > > would help to curb her impulse to go > running off on her own. > > Tori continues to be a strong > forve in the party. She has one of > > the strongest personalities, and is > always involved in most any > > discussion. The animosity between > her and Kage make for some tense > > party meetings, and I'm curious where > it's going to go. It seems to be > > too big to simply fade away. I > believe it must either explode into open > > combat, or something will happen to > force the two of them to admit their > > differences, and work as allies. > Last night they agreed on a course of > > action, which was great. As I've > said before, their biggest priblem is > > that they are too alike and we > finally got to witness that. > > > > Ivan (8) has a lot of potential > to be a leader, and probably would > > get the job if the party knew him > better. Just being a paladin gives > > him some bonus points. They tend to > exude confidence and trust and > > people react well to that. His > leadership could boost morale and keep > > the party in good spirits, perhaps > diffusing some of the tension they > > have seen of late. The only problems > he has are a lack of knowledge of > > the group (he doesn't really know > them well, or their capabilities) and > > a rather simplistic world view. He > seems to see things in terms of > > black and white, as many paladins do, > which could result in the group > > being led to fight evil that they > should just leave alone. Still, there > > is more potential in Ivan than in > most of the rest of the group. > > We really haven't had the > opportunity to see Ivan in combat, and > I'm > > anxious to do so. Most of the fights > he has been in have seen him stuck > > in a bubble until the fight was > mostly over, and last night consisted of > > mostly distance attacks, which Ivan > lacks. I think he will be a most > > effective cpombatant when he gets a > chance to strut his stuff. However, > > the great thing about Ivan is his > prsonality. I love him calling Cullen > > "boy"! Ivan might be just what the > party needs to become a more > > cohesive group. > > > > Cullen (9) seems to be the > unofficial second in command of the > > group, which is a position that he > thinks is just fine. He has a good > > tactical mind, he's charismatic, he's > liked (usually) by the people in > > the party, and if he isn't willing to > lead the group into combat, he has > > an illusion of himself ready to take > his place. The biggest problems > > against Cullen are his emotions > (which can run a little strong at times, > > overwhelming his better judgment) and > his desire not to have the job. > > He likes working behind the scenes, > talking with Kage and trying > > (sometimes unsuccessfully) to give > him his input. At the same time, > > Cullen is one of the people that, > given a chance at leadership, will > > rise to the occassion. As I've > mentioned, Cullen is slowly growing into > > the role of a hero, and he could grow > into the role of a leader, if he > > had to. > > Cullen's transformation from 2nd > edition pseudo-mage to 3rd edition > > psuedo-fighter/thief has been > dramatic. Yet I almost enjoy him more > > like this. I never liked him this > much when he was a junior mage; it > > didn't fit the character. He seems > more like a bard than he ever did > > before, having some skills and feats > that fit almost any class. He has > > a lot of other abilities that I > haven't played with in awhile (since the > > party has been underground so much) > but I hope to have the chance soon. > > By the way, does anyone wonder if > there mnight not be another reason > > Cullen flipped out at Elizabeth? One > has to wonder if he isn't a little > > threatened by another actor in the > group. The two of them do overlap in > > a lot of ways. > > > > Kage (10) really is the best > leader for the group. Many of the > > characters might disagree with me, > and some of the players might as > > well, but I stand by this statement. > Kage is smart. He knows tactics. > > He's creative and thinks quickly. He > is willing to stand in the thick > > of combat with the troops. He isn't > burdened by too many emotions, and > > his decisions are more likely to be > predicated on logic. He is somewhat > > overly focused on his goals (to > avenge himself on the phaerimm), but he > > needs the party alive for that, so > his focus shifts to keeping them > > alive. He isn't always well liked, > but he doesn't care, and I'm not > > sure that it's important in his case. > > Kage possesses one thing in > spades that every leader needs; > > personality. Usually I say that it's > helpful to have a high charisma to > > be a leader, but in Kage's case, I > think the strength of his personality > > more than compensates. An example of > Kage's personality is easy to come > > by. Let's be honest. Who forgets > that Kage can even cast spells? > > Seriously, when was the last time he > did. He's almost as powerful as > > Alturo, yet he rarely deigns to cast > anything. Instead, he simply wades > > into a fight, swinging and throwing > his axe and staring the enemies into > > submissions. It's quite impressive. > > Kage continues to be the driving > force behgind the party, even when > > he isn't leading it. In the end, all > of their recent problems still > > stem from his actions, and he still > pushes the party where he wants it > > to go. Kage has problems with some > of the members; his problems with > > Tori have already been mentioned, and > he argues with Cullen quite a > > bit. He isn't on very good relations > with Alturo, and Elizabeth is > > afraid of him. But he continues to > be the most important character in > > the group, and the perfect leader. > > > > > > > >