[dungeoncrawl] Re: Hello?
- From: Johnathan Detrick <jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:21:28 -0500
I think that all of us have grown as roleplayers to the point where we can
roleplay dissension in the ranks and know that it isn't personal. Kage and Tori
have a lot of problems between them, and I can see it coming to blows, which
might not be a bad thing. There are too many people in the party that won't let
the blows lead to death. But perhaps the two of them beating the crap out of
each other might be healthy. Cullen was really hoping Kage would fight back on
Monday night. Would he have killed him? Well, I don't know if he could kill
him even if he wanted to, but he wouldn't have. He just wanted to have a good
old fashioned testosterone fest. And since Tori has more testosterone than
Cullen does... :)
In the end, my point is that I would hate to see either Jim or Bobby hold
back for fear of wounded feelings. I've read what you both have written, and I
see where both characters are coming from. Tori's reactions to the party
members makes perfect sense from her point of view. I sometimes wonder if the
rest of the party isn't a little too accepting of Kage's attitude at times
(although he certainly has proven himself to the group on more than one
occasion). At the same time, Kage's dislike of Tori makes sense as well, and as
Jim said, I'm sure some members of the party would step up to defend Kage if
things ever come to blows. So the players should just play it out, and let
things go where they may.
We keep saying that role-playing is this group's biggest strength. Why
water that down? We're all mature adults. We should be able to handle this.
Jim and Karen wrote:
> I think we may have all inadvertently created a situation where two similar
> characters (in approach, if not morals) were put in direct conflict with
> each other.
>
> Kage, for example, is exactly what Tori thinks he is, but he's also the
> exact opposite. (And by the way, I'm glad you're home. :) ). He started out
> fully intending to lead the group into certain doom, but since that time,
> he's actually come to like them. And believe it or not, he's nagged the
> group (and the Magister) about the need to rescue Tori on at least six or
> seven occasions. Not that he'd ever tell her that, but he wanted the group
> to get a morale boost from her return. So for years, he's been anticipating
> the chance to meet this person who he's heard so many good things about, and
> so far he's completely disappointed (mostly because she isn't blindly
> obedient).
>
> But more importantly, even though Tori was there in the beginning, the group
> has been through a huge amount of crazy s**t since she left. And Kage took
> them all through it, with no casualties, until Matt decided to retire one of
> his characters. Most of the time, he took the brunt of the punishment to
> keep everyone else safe. So even though he doesn't show it, I see the
> character as being furious at being so put down about a job that he didn't
> even want by a person that he doesn't even know.
>
> What's difficult for me is the fact that what you're having Tori do makes
> perfect sense, to a point. I don't fully understand her personality, so the
> potion wasting thing is still confusing, but I generally can relate to where
> she's coming from. But like John mentioned last week, if she had launched
> some arrows at Kage (say, for example, if he parried Cullen), she might have
> been on the bad end of some totally unexpected party loyalty on his behalf.
> But it's just something that we need to roleplay carefullly if such a thing
> does come from any of this.
>
> At this point, I have two worries (and one of them is enough for me to sort
> of dread Monday): (1) That someone will take things the wrong way from
> well-intentioned roleplaying, and (2) that the years of work I've put into
> developing Kage's back story will be thrown aside when they come to a head
> on Monday because of a character who thinks she's the best schoolyard bully
> since sliced bread (hence my wedgie earlier). :)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Deibler" <rdeibler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:58 PM
> Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Hello?
>
> > I don't think that would happen, I don't see them in a violent
> relationship or running down to a showdown. Tori will eventually just learn
> to ingore him, he is like a new wound (say a Hang nail) you keep picking at
> it until it get dull and then you jeut learn to let it alone. Eventually it
> will go away. Tori would not have want to attack you but two factors played
> into hit the big fight previous to thettck and these folks were her hated
> enemies so her blood was hot. She really will either learn to ignore him or
> pick up an extra skill of Kage Heckling. But I really do not see it coming
> down to a fight. (unless he attacks a party member or harms on in a
> malicious way)
> >
> > I actually forgot about teh healing thing. she was just being spitefull.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim and Karen [mailto:jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Tue 11/26/2002 9:57 PM
> > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Cc:
> > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Hello?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I see what you're saying on the bow thing - it's not something that he
> > should base his opinion on. I guess it's more for my benefit, that it
> seems
> > like she thinks it's in the group's best interest to off him if given a
> > plausible reason.
> >
> > To be honest, the "geek" thing sort of rankled me automatically - I have a
> > deep-seated dislike of people who would single anyone out to treat like a
> > "geek", and it's hard to see that as a good quality for a character. But
> I
> > didn't take it as a sign of your own point of view.
> >
> > Just as explanation, his handling of Tori with the orc incident came from
> > his own point of view that he was in a situation where all of the sailors
> > were dead, one orc was alive, and he had no idea of where thy were or why
> > they were fighting - he was fine with killing the orc, but couldn't
> > understand why another minute to do so mattered.
> >
> > I think his own low opinion of Tori was solidified when she wasted a
> healing
> > potion just to make a point - it seemed like a really dumb thing to do to
> > him.
> >
> > Personally, I like your character, and I think you're doing a fine job
> > running her - but I do agree with Damon that we both need to be careful
> > playing this out. Just like Cullen and Kage fighting could lead John and
> I
> > down the path of role confusion, I'd hate to see the same thing happen
> > between you and me -
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert Deibler" <rdeibler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:33 PM
> > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Hello?
> >
> >
> > > If you would have "attacked" (as she would have percieved it) Cullen yes
> > she would have attacked you, but you have to see it through her eyes she
> has
> > known Cullen from the beginning of the adventure, she sees you as an
> > outsider and the whole Orc display at the beach just rubbed her the wrong
> > way. She would not just attack him randomly but she would defend her
> > friends. (He would not have seen her aim her bow at him anyways so he
> would
> > not judge her either way for that. She was behind him and up in the air,
> so
> > no one would have really noticed her except if they were flying.) She
> really
> > could care less about you and wants to be left alone. (does that make any
> > sense???)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > She is defiantly not a bully in anyway.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In fact she would rather just stay to herself actually some where in the
> > woods, but unfortunately it did not happen this way, and the gods have her
> > running through the underdark which she does not like, (use to be) lead my
> a
> > human dominate male that has rubbed her the wrong way on several occasions
> > (intentionally in her mind.). She would rather just ignore Kage like she
> did
> > on the boat when he gave her that order. She is actually quiet the women
> > when people get to know her and she is not fighting in hostile territory.
> > Remember back when Purina was with us. We had stopped at a bar, she got
> all
> > cleaned and dressed up and went dancing and drinking. (But stayed with the
> > guys she knew not strangers, when the night rolled on she hung out in the
> > corner watching people) So I really just see her as socially challenged
> when
> > it comes to strangers and especially bossy strangers. If Kage would have
> > taken his first angle of saying hello this would have probably turn out
> all
> > different.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tori and Her quick perceptions of the characters:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Whilce:
> > >
> > > She like Whilce, his care free nature and plain old no common sense
> makes
> > her laugh. She often keeps and eye on him (likes he need it) in combat so
> > his new experiences does not get him next deep in trouble. Tori does not
> > totally trust him in combat and feels he is a bit wild to put in a
> strategic
> > place unless there is a catch for his attention to stay there. She feels
> > free to talk with Whilce, even trust him to a point in battle. While
> sitting
> > in a camp fire she would openly hold discussions with him.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cullen:
> > >
> > > She trusts Cullen the most as far as leading the group wisely and not by
> > the spur of his pants. She has her doubts at his young age and experience
> in
> > combat but has noticed he has matured a lot since their last combat
> > together. Again at the campfire she would talk openly with him and often
> > exchanges advice with him when the opportunity presents itself.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Neris:
> > >
> > > She understands the quietness of Neris and respects his skills, she
> knows
> > he can hold the key to victory in many battle yet fought with his skill in
> > the shadows and powerful and accurate shot. If Neris would she would hold
> > ranger like conversations. She trusts him in a fight not to just dump the
> > group and take cover. Even if he is not seen for a round or two she knows
> > the missile fire will soon begin. Tori would have no problem following
> Neris
> > as a leader.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ivan:
> > >
> > > She does not know him to judge him, so far he seems ok friendly and
> caring
> > of the group, but she would like to keep her distance from him until such
> > time that his true colors need be shown. In a campfire she would not
> > converse with him and if talked to would only reply with polite short
> crisp
> > closed ended answers
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Altoro:
> > >
> > > She was originally held captive with altoro by the orcs, in there escape
> > and the battle that followed she learned to like the little fellow (even
> if
> > heâ?Ts a dwarf). Often during the camp fire she would hold talks ranging
> > from any topic he would want to talk about. They in the past would hold
> > religious conversations. In a fight she has complete trust for altoroâ?Ts
> > fighting prowess and decision making. She would have no problems following
> > him as a leader.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kage
> > >
> > > As we talked about she is not openly hostile to him (except in terms of
> > hostile talks), but if talked to her she would answer in sarcastic crisp
> > tones just in the hopes of having him not talk to her again. She does not
> > trust him combat or to follow any of his orders. Around the campfire she
> > would not talk to him or hang out at the fire if the conversation
> pertained
> > him and it would appear to have a chance to make them communicate. She
> does
> > not openly start hostile conversation either but if he talks to her
> itâ?Ts
> > bound to turn that way with his jabs at her.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tori:
> > >
> > > She does not trust her and does not communicate to her at all even when
> > talked to. Kage at least has a degree of trust from the entire party so he
> > can not be 100% bad (99.9%). But Liz where did she come from, the last act
> > last night walked a fine line. Tori wants to keep an eye on her. It Liz a
> > talks with her she just walks away or leaves the area. If she has to talk
> > with her she refers to her as girl. There is no trust what so ever in
> regard
> > to combat situations or watch.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So she is talkative and friendly once a friendship is established. The
> > geek comment was just a reference she does not think him a geek. I used
> the
> > wrong analogy sorry the confusion. The point I was trying to get across is
> > how you try to avoid people and not talk to them or openly avoid bumping
> > into them.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Tue 11/26/2002 11:49 AM
> > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Hello?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Guys, I hope my last email wasn't taken
> > > the wrong way - it sure got quiet awful
> > > fast! I'll hang around another five
> > > minutes or so, in case anyone's still
> > > at work.
> > >
> > > Basically, I want to know Tori's
> > > motivation (at least how she comes
> > > across to Kage). He'll handle things
> > > differently if it's obvious that she's
> > > really just a dominator and not a
> > > naive, but forceful, person who means
> > > well. Make
> > > sense/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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