[dungeoncrawl] Re: Hello?
- From: "Jim and Karen" <jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:51:00 -0500
Fully understand, and sorry for overreacting. Like 99% of the population,
it seems I can never fully get over high school -
Have a good night,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Deibler" <rdeibler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 11:31 PM
Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Hello?
> Cool as long as you understand that she is not a bully.(or I am not trying
nor want to run her as a bully) She is just living life as best she can in
the current rotten situation.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim and Karen [mailto:jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tue 11/26/2002 10:49 PM
> To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc:
> Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Hello?
>
>
>
>
> Ah, grasshopper...you need an explanation! :)
>
> Back in the day, Charlie Hickey (do you know him?) used to call John and I
> "Zebedee's Sons". That's because in the Gospel, Jesus had two brothers -
> James and John - who argued constantly. I can't help but smile when I
think
> of John, but we've had legendary (and now amusing) altercations over the
> years.
>
> And since we've played D&D so much, they've invariably spilled over. I
> wouldn't trade anything for those disagreements, since we've learned so
much
> from them, but Damon would be nuts not to try to prevent any such thing
from
> happening again. :) That's just my theory, but you deserve to at least
> have the info so you can infer what you can on your own. :)
>
> Also, as far as why I focused so much on Tori's intentions and the "bully"
> theory, like I said, I myself have a deep-seated disgust for bullies. I'm
> mostly over it now, but for years, I lived with serious regret that I
never
> gave in to my rage in high school and concaved the skull of some of the
> bullies who tormented me. I was too decent to lower myself, but for a
while
> it was more annoying because I could have gotten away with quite a bit and
> only been sent to reform school. :)
>
> So anyway, reading a description of Tori that she's like a person picking
on
> a geek at replaced everything else I read as I made an opinion of the
> character. I was picturing cement rollers at that point, and they don't
> even exist in the setting. :)
>
> Ok, enough with the explanations. It was really important to me that this
> be discussed, because like I mentioned, BIG BIG things are in store for
Kage
> on Monday. And he's going to hate every minute of it. But considering
that
> it's been a long time in coming, I'd hate to see it be marred if some
> misunderstanding existed that could have been rectified beforehand.
>
> I hope this makes sense, and that I don't come across in the wrong way - I
> never thought badly of you, I just didn't understand how you were
> approaching things. Now I think we're on track to have a lot of fun next
> week. Even if things go badly between Kage and Tori, I'll know that it's
> because you are a creative genius and are visualizing something really
cool.
>
> If you played with some of the players I have, you'd really understand how
I
> can be paranoid. :) Purina, anyone?
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Deibler" <rdeibler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:28 PM
> Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Hello?
>
>
> > No...Please do not think she is a bully infact she would rather not
fight
> (unless hated foe) she just want to get this over with and move on but
make
> sure the party make it aout alive as well. If you would of parried she
> wouldn't have shot but an attck where you continue the altercation yes she
> woudl have, She viewed she needed to protect Cullen. Buts she does not try
> to pull of teh persona of a bully. In fact she should be just teh
opposite,
> She usually just sits back in the back, but is not afraid to speak her
mind,
> and will NEVER just follow orders by anyone she does not deem worthm
> magister mystra kage or whoever. But please look at sharp tongued
> bystander. I never meant to give teh impression of a bully.
> >
> > What made you think of her in this light? (Did I roll play something in
> this manner from what I can recall she just never listened to orders never
> bullied anyone around. Even in the Kage tori mouth battles its never been
a
> bulling thing just insults)
> >
> > I guess I am missing something what is Damon and yourself worreid about
us
> playing out??
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim and Karen [mailto:jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Tue 11/26/2002 10:21 PM
> > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Cc:
> > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Hello?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I think we may have all inadvertently created a situation where two
> similar
> > characters (in approach, if not morals) were put in direct conflict with
> > each other.
> >
> > Kage, for example, is exactly what Tori thinks he is, but he's also the
> > exact opposite. (And by the way, I'm glad you're home. :) ). He started
> out
> > fully intending to lead the group into certain doom, but since that
time,
> > he's actually come to like them. And believe it or not, he's nagged the
> > group (and the Magister) about the need to rescue Tori on at least six
or
> > seven occasions. Not that he'd ever tell her that, but he wanted the
> group
> > to get a morale boost from her return. So for years, he's been
> anticipating
> > the chance to meet this person who he's heard so many good things about,
> and
> > so far he's completely disappointed (mostly because she isn't blindly
> > obedient).
> >
> > But more importantly, even though Tori was there in the beginning, the
> group
> > has been through a huge amount of crazy s**t since she left. And Kage
> took
> > them all through it, with no casualties, until Matt decided to retire
one
> of
> > his characters. Most of the time, he took the brunt of the punishment
to
> > keep everyone else safe. So even though he doesn't show it, I see the
> > character as being furious at being so put down about a job that he
didn't
> > even want by a person that he doesn't even know.
> >
> > What's difficult for me is the fact that what you're having Tori do
makes
> > perfect sense, to a point. I don't fully understand her personality, so
> the
> > potion wasting thing is still confusing, but I generally can relate to
> where
> > she's coming from. But like John mentioned last week, if she had
launched
> > some arrows at Kage (say, for example, if he parried Cullen), she might
> have
> > been on the bad end of some totally unexpected party loyalty on his
> behalf.
> > But it's just something that we need to roleplay carefullly if such a
> thing
> > does come from any of this.
> >
> > At this point, I have two worries (and one of them is enough for me to
> sort
> > of dread Monday): (1) That someone will take things the wrong way from
> > well-intentioned roleplaying, and (2) that the years of work I've put
into
> > developing Kage's back story will be thrown aside when they come to a
head
>
> > on Monday because of a character who thinks she's the best schoolyard
> bully
> > since sliced bread (hence my wedgie earlier). :)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert Deibler" <rdeibler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:58 PM
> > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Hello?
> >
> >
> > > I don't think that would happen, I don't see them in a violent
> > relationship or running down to a showdown. Tori will eventually just
> learn
> > to ingore him, he is like a new wound (say a Hang nail) you keep picking
> at
> > it until it get dull and then you jeut learn to let it alone. Eventually
> it
> > will go away. Tori would not have want to attack you but two factors
> played
> > into hit the big fight previous to thettck and these folks were her
hated
> > enemies so her blood was hot. She really will either learn to ignore him
> or
> > pick up an extra skill of Kage Heckling. But I really do not see it
coming
> > down to a fight. (unless he attacks a party member or harms on in a
> > malicious way)
> > >
> > > I actually forgot about teh healing thing. she was just being
spitefull.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jim and Karen [mailto:jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Tue 11/26/2002 9:57 PM
> > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Hello?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I see what you're saying on the bow thing - it's not something that he
> > > should base his opinion on. I guess it's more for my benefit, that it
> > seems
> > > like she thinks it's in the group's best interest to off him if given
a
> > > plausible reason.
> > >
> > > To be honest, the "geek" thing sort of rankled me automatically - I
have
> a
> > > deep-seated dislike of people who would single anyone out to treat
like
> a
> > > "geek", and it's hard to see that as a good quality for a character.
> But
> > I
> > > didn't take it as a sign of your own point of view.
> > >
> > > Just as explanation, his handling of Tori with the orc incident came
> from
> > > his own point of view that he was in a situation where all of the
> sailors
> > > were dead, one orc was alive, and he had no idea of where thy were or
> why
> > > they were fighting - he was fine with killing the orc, but couldn't
> > > understand why another minute to do so mattered.
> > >
> > > I think his own low opinion of Tori was solidified when she wasted a
> > healing
> > > potion just to make a point - it seemed like a really dumb thing to do
> to
> > > him.
> > >
> > > Personally, I like your character, and I think you're doing a fine job
> > > running her - but I do agree with Damon that we both need to be
careful
> > > playing this out. Just like Cullen and Kage fighting could lead John
> and
> > I
> > > down the path of role confusion, I'd hate to see the same thing happen
> > > between you and me -
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Robert Deibler" <rdeibler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:33 PM
> > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Hello?
> > >
> > >
> > > > If you would have "attacked" (as she would have percieved it) Cullen
> yes
> > > she would have attacked you, but you have to see it through her eyes
she
> > has
> > > known Cullen from the beginning of the adventure, she sees you as an
> > > outsider and the whole Orc display at the beach just rubbed her the
> wrong
> > > way. She would not just attack him randomly but she would defend her
> > > friends. (He would not have seen her aim her bow at him anyways so he
> > would
> > > not judge her either way for that. She was behind him and up in the
air,
> > so
> > > no one would have really noticed her except if they were flying.) She
> > really
> > > could care less about you and wants to be left alone. (does that make
> any
> > > sense???)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > She is defiantly not a bully in anyway.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In fact she would rather just stay to herself actually some where in
> the
> > > woods, but unfortunately it did not happen this way, and the gods have
> her
> > > running through the underdark which she does not like, (use to be)
lead
> my
> > a
> > > human dominate male that has rubbed her the wrong way on several
> occasions
> > > (intentionally in her mind.). She would rather just ignore Kage like
she
> > did
> > > on the boat when he gave her that order. She is actually quiet the
women
> > > when people get to know her and she is not fighting in hostile
> territory.
> > > Remember back when Purina was with us. We had stopped at a bar, she
got
> > all
> > > cleaned and dressed up and went dancing and drinking. (But stayed with
> the
> > > guys she knew not strangers, when the night rolled on she hung out in
> the
> > > corner watching people) So I really just see her as socially
challenged
> > when
> > > it comes to strangers and especially bossy strangers. If Kage would
have
> > > taken his first angle of saying hello this would have probably turn
out
> > all
> > > different.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tori and Her quick perceptions of the characters:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Whilce:
> > > >
> > > > She like Whilce, his care free nature and plain old no common sense
> > makes
> > > her laugh. She often keeps and eye on him (likes he need it) in combat
> so
> > > his new experiences does not get him next deep in trouble. Tori does
not
> > > totally trust him in combat and feels he is a bit wild to put in a
> > strategic
> > > place unless there is a catch for his attention to stay there. She
feels
> > > free to talk with Whilce, even trust him to a point in battle. While
> > sitting
> > > in a camp fire she would openly hold discussions with him.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cullen:
> > > >
> > > > She trusts Cullen the most as far as leading the group wisely and
not
> by
> > > the spur of his pants. She has her doubts at his young age and
> experience
> > in
> > > combat but has noticed he has matured a lot since their last combat
> > > together. Again at the campfire she would talk openly with him and
often
> > > exchanges advice with him when the opportunity presents itself.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Neris:
> > > >
> > > > She understands the quietness of Neris and respects his skills, she
> > knows
> > > he can hold the key to victory in many battle yet fought with his
skill
> in
> > > the shadows and powerful and accurate shot. If Neris would she would
> hold
> > > ranger like conversations. She trusts him in a fight not to just dump
> the
> > > group and take cover. Even if he is not seen for a round or two she
> knows
> > > the missile fire will soon begin. Tori would have no problem following
> > Neris
> > > as a leader.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ivan:
> > > >
> > > > She does not know him to judge him, so far he seems ok friendly and
> > caring
> > > of the group, but she would like to keep her distance from him until
> such
> > > time that his true colors need be shown. In a campfire she would not
> > > converse with him and if talked to would only reply with polite short
> > crisp
> > > closed ended answers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Altoro:
> > > >
> > > > She was originally held captive with altoro by the orcs, in there
> escape
> > > and the battle that followed she learned to like the little fellow
(even
> > if
> > > heÃffÃ,¢?Ts a dwarf). Often during the camp fire she would hold talks
> ranging
> > > from any topic he would want to talk about. They in the past would
hold
> > > religious conversations. In a fight she has complete trust for
> altoroÃffÃ,¢?Ts
> > > fighting prowess and decision making. She would have no problems
> following
> > > him as a leader.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kage
> > > >
> > > > As we talked about she is not openly hostile to him (except in terms
> of
> > > hostile talks), but if talked to her she would answer in sarcastic
crisp
> > > tones just in the hopes of having him not talk to her again. She does
> not
> > > trust him combat or to follow any of his orders. Around the campfire
she
> > > would not talk to him or hang out at the fire if the conversation
> > pertained
> > > him and it would appear to have a chance to make them communicate. She
> > does
> > > not openly start hostile conversation either but if he talks to her
> > itÃffÃ,¢?Ts
> > > bound to turn that way with his jabs at her.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tori:
> > > >
> > > > She does not trust her and does not communicate to her at all even
> when
> > > talked to. Kage at least has a degree of trust from the entire party
so
> he
> > > can not be 100% bad (99.9%). But Liz where did she come from, the last
> act
> > > last night walked a fine line. Tori wants to keep an eye on her. It
Liz
> a
> > > talks with her she just walks away or leaves the area. If she has to
> talk
> > > with her she refers to her as girl. There is no trust what so ever in
> > regard
> > > to combat situations or watch.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So she is talkative and friendly once a friendship is established.
The
> > > geek comment was just a reference she does not think him a geek. I
used
> > the
> > > wrong analogy sorry the confusion. The point I was trying to get
across
> is
> > > how you try to avoid people and not talk to them or openly avoid
bumping
> > > into them.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > Sent: Tue 11/26/2002 11:49 AM
> > > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Cc:
> > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Hello?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Guys, I hope my last email wasn't taken
> > > > the wrong way - it sure got quiet awful
> > > > fast! I'll hang around another five
> > > > minutes or so, in case anyone's still
> > > > at work.
> > > >
> > > > Basically, I want to know Tori's
> > > > motivation (at least how she comes
> > > > across to Kage). He'll handle things
> > > > differently if it's obvious that she's
> > > > really just a dominator and not a
> > > > naive, but forceful, person who means
> > > > well. Make
> > > > sense/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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