[dungeoncrawl] Re: Campaign Thoughts
- From: Damon Kline <damon.kline@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:51:08 -0400
Okay, I really don't have too many expectations for the Riders at this
point. I expect that they will succeed, but then I always reserve a bit of
conscious that says, "Maybe they won't succeed. What then?" Well, as John
said, if they don't succeed, that could be just as interesting. I'm not
sure how well the Riders would fair against a consortium of powerful evil
deities, but they would at least give it one hell of a shot.
In the past couple of years, I think that we have all grown as people and as
players. I have learned to just let the DM do whatever he wants to. If all
of my characters die and I have to start over, so be it. If Jim decides
that the Riders get to a world and become Gods, only to find out that the
world is inhabited completely by chickens, so be it. My point is that I try
not to have any expectations, because I want the DM to have complete control
and I don't want to influence his ideas. My characters don't have any
control over what the DM decides to do, so neither should I.
If Jim wants to break tradition and give my characters some items that they
don't have to make Wisdom checks to use...so be it!!! :) Sorry Jim, I
couldn't resist.
On that note though, Quasit and Baish are severely low on items. Most of
Quasit's were technological and most of Baish's were destroyed along with
Sir Malcolm's by that bitch of a priestess that they fought on the Pirate
Isles.
Baish did really well in his fight with Rig, as he usually does, but he was
also in a gladiatorial arena. Most of his abilities as a gladiator rely on
that type of setting, so he was getting bonuses that he normally wouldn't
get. Anyway...
Suffice it to say that whatever happens to these Riders, I'll work with it!
Go Jim!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Damon Kline [mailto:damon.kline@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 9:41 AM
To: 'dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Campaign Thoughts
Hi guys! Sorry it's taken me so long to jump in here. I finally finished
reading the books that you guys have been writing back and forth. :)
In my opinion, I would normally prefer to have the more intricate details
that Jim tends to put in. I like the fleshed out backstory and the vivid
accounts of things. However, I understand that with our current amount of
time to play D&D, we just don't have the time for it.
As John said, there are two BASIC types of DM's, but I can look at the four
DM's that I've experienced and see four different styles.
On one end of the spectrum you have Bobby. Bobby is a very, very
descriptive DM who mentally builds a world around your character(s). I'd
say that Bobby is more focused on the history and little details that make a
world rich. Everything is important and described. The plots are good, but
"generally" less complex and detailed than some other DM's. Combat is
described in detail. The main focus is on the ambiance of the world and of
the characters. This is a slower paced campaign, because it takes more time
to describe things and to work with all of the details, but it also gives
the characters the most opportunity to flesh themselves out and you always
feel like you accomplish something. The emphasis here is on the world and
the characters role in that world.
Jim is next on the spectrum, still incorporating a lot of description and
history in his worlds, but not focusing as much on the smaller details about
the characters. His things are more plot driven, although sometimes those
plots are driven by characters, the main focus is the story. How the world
interacts with that story is another important part of it. The plots are
often very, very complex and the world is vividly described. I think this
gives the characters less of an opportunity to focus on their personality
and sense of self, but it provides more of an opportunity for the character
to interact with the world and see what changes occur. The emphasis is on
the story mostly, but also on the world in general.
I think I'm next on the spectrum. I tend to have much simpler plots than
any other DM. Mine are usually straight forward and my focus is generally
on setting. Not so much the NPC's to interact with, but the environment
that the characters are in. I try to give the characters things to interact
with that are personal to them and I like to make the characters feel as
though they are part of something important. This has its downfalls, as it
can get overdone. I don't have nearly as much description as Jim or Bobby,
but I do think that I focus more on characters than Jim does. I don't
provide the ambiance, but give the characters a chance to shine. The
emphasis is mostly on the characters.
John is the opposite end of the spectrum from Bobby. John focuses more on
plot. He isn't concerned so much with description, although he does throw
it in when it is warranted. He tends to be more into developing a complex
plot or plots that interweave with each other. He is great at "teaching
lessons" with his plots and they often have the characters questioning or
strengthening their resolve on different issues. I don't think his focus is
so much on making the characters look good as it is seeing how they interact
with NPC's and the plot in general. The emphasis here is mainly on the
plot, but also John develops his villains more than anyone, I think. You
really end up wanting to see the villains fail.
Now, these are all just my opinions, but you can see how different the
styles are. I definitely don't think that any one style is better than
another, although there are some that I prefer. However, as you can see,
some of the styles just aren't "compatible" with the time frames that we
play in. If we could play 3 times a week for a couple of hours each time,
things would be different, but since we can't, I think we have to make
sacrifices. Unfortunately, some of those sacrifices are what makes the game
so fun for some of us.
But, even with the time constraints, the fun of the game is still there. I
have no doubt that we could easily play out this Riders thing for a couple
of years.
Heck, all of you would be forty by the time we'd finish...I'd still be in my
30's, but we won't talk about that. :)
Seriously though, we could take one campaign and make that the focus of the
next several years without a problem, I'm sure. But, I just think that we
would be depriving ourselves of getting to experience so many other
campaigns, characters and ideas. In essence, we are sacrificing a bit of
quality to experience more quantity. But I think that we can make that
quantity a heck of a lot of fun to play!
I'll answer my expectations for the Riders in another email because this is
getting to be a book!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 9:11 AM
To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Campaign Thoughts
I know that Matt isn't as fond of that group as I am, but
personally, they interest me just as much as the rest of the Riders. I
think they have a very intriguing mix of personalities and abilities.
They aren't your normal party, either in outlook or classes. Plus, I'm
interested in both of the plots, both to recover Sonya's soul and
Sinjen's honor. Bring on the bad guys!
jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> I'm pretty psyched right now too. I'm
> enjoying DMing, and am looking forward
> to doing something more action-packed.
>
> Monday should have its share of
> surprises as well - I think the group
> under Sigil should be in for quite a
> challenge as they try to recover the
> evil sword that Sonya used to kill the
> paladin.
>
> >
> > I wanted to mention something
> that I found interesting as well.
> > Just talking about D&D the past few
> days, has rekindled my interest in
> > playing again. I'm getting quite
> psyched to play on Monday.
> >
> > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >
> > > I thought I remembered Nadan's papa
> > > coming back as a good person? It's
> > > been a while. That's a good
> example of
> > > why things work better now - people
> who
> > > are DMing collaborate more with
> people
> > > who are playing. Things that are
> > > totally unworkable seem a lot rarer.
> > >
> > > I brought up plot reversal mostly
> > > because I think it happens when new
> DMs
> > > inherit something that seems to put
> > > them in a straightjacket, or has no
> > > potential. I'd like the ultimate
> world
> > > that gets created to be a
> springboard
> > > for new ideas, not a hindrance.
> Thus
> > > the long emails this morning about
> > > expectations and the like.
> > >
> > > And I also see this as a
> great "style
> > > point" way to end the campaign. You
> > > don't get this sort of chance too
> > > often, and I really want to see how
> it
> > > all turns out. To be honest, I
> have no
> > > idea what Celane's ultimate fate
> is -
> > > she has both the Riders and the
> Black
> > > Legion coming after her - and all I
> can
> > > hope is that Dennis somehow survives
> > > it. :)
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I was amazed with how
> you
> > > introduced Quincy as well. It was
> > > > very much the sort of
> introduction I
> > > would have done. Of course, you
> > > > still added something I wouldn't
> > > have. You built it up so Magnus
> > > > thought he was getting someone
> good,
> > > only to be disappointed when it was
> > > > Quincy. It was a great touch, and
> > > the sort of thing that you do that
> > > > never occurs to me.
> > > > I think your style is great,
> and
> > > you could create a very detailed
> > > > and intricate campaign, which is
> > > exactly what you did with the
> > > > Fellowship of Sundyr. Alas, time
> is
> > > no longer our friend. In many
> > > > ways, I again liken it to The X-
> > > Files. When they had a series, they
> > > > could do all kinds of stories, and
> > > really take their time. Hey, they
> > > > were doing 22 hours or so a year,
> and
> > > they filled it with some gems
> > > > (like the Bermuda Triangle
> episode).
> > > Now that they are doing movies
> > > > (say 2 hours every other year),
> they
> > > won't be able to do that. Things
> > > > will have to move faster, and
> while
> > > every movie should be excellent, and
> > > > better than any single episode of
> the
> > > series, the little gems will be no
> > > > more. We just have to make the
> best
> > > of it.
> > > > As for the end of this plot,
> my
> > > expectations are very simple. I
> > > > expect the Riders to become
> deities
> > > of this world. Failing that, I
> > > > expect them to be in a situation
> > > where they can change what occurred.
> > > > My example about the Black Legion
> > > from the previous e-mail is a
> perfect
> > > > example of what I mean by being
> able
> > > to change what happened. What I
> > > > would hate to see is the rug
> pulled
> > > out from under them. I see this as
> > > > the perfect chance to end the
> longest
> > > campaign we have ever had, as well
> > > > as allow our characters to retire
> > > with the most style points
> available.
> > > > Note that I don't expect Magnus to
> > > survive, or any one character to
> > > > survive. But yes, I do think the
> > > Riders will win.
> > > > As for plots being reversed,
> > > we've been over this numerous times.
> > > > All of us do it to each other.
> You
> > > reverse my plots, I reverse yours,
> > > > and all of us reversed Damon's
> when
> > > the giant robot invaded Elven Flow
> > > > (and for that matter, we won't
> even
> > > discuss when Keith had the Riders
> > > > fight Transformers). We've all
> been
> > > there, and we all know that it can
> > > > be frustrating. It's one of the
> main
> > > reasons that we have not changed
> > > > the Chosen back. Braun is still a
> > > Figurine of Wondrous Power, and
> Wolfe
> > > > still doesn't have any bloody
> items
> > > (which means that I now have to give
> > > > him to Matt to play). We've left
> > > what happened stand, and I think we
> do
> > > > that more often that we used to.
> > > > By the way, we never reversed
> > > what happened with Nadan's father.
> I
> > > > wasn't happy about it at the time,
> > > but it still stands. Nadan just
> > > > doesn't talk about his father a
> lot,
> > > and when he does, he tends to speak
> > > > of him as he always did. Nadan
> feels
> > > that he had already built his
> > > > father up into this larger than
> life
> > > figure, and that's who he chooses
> > > > to remember. But his father is
> still
> > > an evil villain.
> > > >
> > > > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I think you covered it pretty
> well,
> > > and
> > > > > reassured me on the important
> stuff.
> > > > >
> > > > > You're right on character
> > > introduction -
> > > > > it's sort of funny, but when
> you
> > > posed
> > > > > that scenario, my first thought
> > > > > was, "Ugh. That's a lot of
> work! I
> > > > > always have to give those
> situations
> > > > > such thought, and it takes
> forever."
> > > > >
> > > > > Like the recent introduction of
> > > > > Quincy. In the back of my
> mind, a
> > > > > little voice is still
> saying, "You
> > > > > should have developed a
> backstory
> > > for
> > > > > John of where Quincy has been
> on the
> > > > > planes. It would help him to
> > > > > understand what happened since
> the
> > > > > character was seen last."
> Or, "That
> > > > > was sort of a contrived way to
> bring
> > > > > him in - just coming through a
> > > portal
> > > > > like that. There should have
> been a
> > > > > better explanation, or it
> doesn't
> > > quite
> > > > > hold up for this reason" - etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I had a bit more talent, a
> lot
> > > more
> > > > > patience, and even more time, I
> > > could
> > > > > easily write something as
> lengthy as
> > > > > war and peace. This might sound
> > > odd or
> > > > > sick, but I LIKE the fact that
> the
> > > > > Tolkien books are long on
> > > explanation.
> > > > > It makes it more real for me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Like the adventures we're
> currently
> > > > > doing - personally, I'm far more
> > > > > interested in things like the
> > > history
> > > > > of the Green Mill Inn or its
> place
> > > in
> > > > > the local economy than in how
> well
> > > it
> > > > > suits the characters as a
> temporary
> > > > > base. That's why Dennis, on
> first
> > > > > visiting, said, "The Green Mill
> > > Inn! I
> > > > > have long heard of this place
> from
> > > > > songs and legends, but never
> > > realized
> > > > > that I would actually see it."
> > > > >
> > > > > It could be, and I'm cool with
> it if
> > > > > such is the case, that none of
> the
> > > > > players that night even caught
> the
> > > > > comment, let alone used it to
> build
> > > an
> > > > > idea that the inn they're
> staying
> > > in is
> > > > > legendary somewhere.
> > > > >
> > > > > I try to sprinkle that sort of
> stuff
> > > > > all over when I DM, and the fact
> > > that
> > > > > I'm in to LOTR right now is only
> > > making
> > > > > it worse. :)
> > > > >
> > > > > My problem is simply finding a
> > > > > compromise in all of this - deep
> > > down,
> > > > > I want the players to have a
> good
> > > time,
> > > > > but there's a channeled spirit
> of
> > > > > Professor Ludwig Von Duck in
> there
> > > too.
> > > > > -------------------------------
> > > > > OK - next topic. To be honest,
> I'm
> > > > > feeling a bit of pressure in
> > > deciding
> > > > > how this all turns out. In some
> > > way or
> > > > > another, the Riders are
> guaranteed
> > > to
> > > > > have a heroic or at least
> momentous
> > > > > impact on the outcome of
> the "world
> > > > > chasing" plot.
> > > > >
> > > > > But it might not be what they
> > > expect,
> > > > > or the terms of success might
> read
> > > > > differently than Mylena set
> them up
> > > > > for. I have a bit of paranoia
> that
> > > > > anything I establish as DM will
> > > vanish
> > > > > within 3 months' time - shades
> of
> > > > > Nadan's father, or something. :)
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd really like to end up with
> > > > > something where everyone is
> > > satisfied.
> > > > > The last time a character
> became a
> > > god
> > > > > (Baish), he ended up a mortal
> again
> > > > > within a year or so of playing
> time.
> > > > > Or look at any one of my own
> > > reversals
> > > > > or character rebirths - Fenrys
> > > would be
> > > > > an example.
> > > > >
> > > > > So I'm not "stressing" over
> this,
> > > but
> > > > > it's necessary to understand
> where
> > > > > everyone else is coming from.
> Not
> > > to
> > > > > change those views or to
> influence
> > > them
> > > > > in a certain way, but to make
> sure
> > > that
> > > > > expectations aren't totally out
> of
> > > > > whack with that I'm doing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Man, can I ramble! Anyone else?
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I certainly understand
> what
> > > you
> > > > > are saying, and I think you
> have a
> > > good
> > > > > > point. However, I have to
> > > disagree
> > > > > when you say too much
> contrivance
> > > will
> > > > > kill
> > > > > > the game. Sometimes,
> contrivance
> > > is
> > > > > not only useful, but absolutely
> > > > > necessary.
> > > > > > I believe the problem may
> be
> > > that
> > > > > you still wish to DM as you did
> > > when we
> > > > > > played more often. It's the
> same
> > > > > trap I fell into with the Tiamat
> > > War.
> > > > > We want
> > > > > > to do things for the sake of
> the
> > > > > story. Unfortunately, that's
> not
> > > > > always an
> > > > > > option. In my opinion, the
> DM has
> > > > > two jobs, and what shapes a DM
> most
> > > is
> > > > > where
> > > > > > they place their priorities.
> The
> > > > > first job of the DM is to
> provide a
> > > > > story; a
> > > > > > world and a plot and other
> > > characters
> > > > > for the players to interact
> with.
> > > The
> > > > > > second job is to provide the
> > > players
> > > > > with an enjoyable game. I have
> > > always
> > > > > > placed my emphasis on the
> second
> > > job,
> > > > > while I believe that you
> sometimes
> > > focus
> > > > > > on the first.
> > > > > > Does that make me a
> better DM?
> > > > > Of course not. But it can be
> very
> > > > > telling
> > > > > > in the way the game is run.
> Many
> > > > > times in the past I have zipped
> > > through
> > > > > things
> > > > > > that I felt would not be
> enjoyable
> > > > > for the players to actually play
> > > > > through.
> > > > > > Did it seem a little
> contrived?
> > > Hell
> > > > > yes. But, in my opinion, it was
> > > better
> > > > > to
> > > > > > be contrived than it was to
> have a
> > > > > session that wasn't as much fun
> as
> > > it
> > > > > could
> > > > > > have been. I think the best
> > > example
> > > > > to illustrate the differences
> > > between my
> > > > > > style of DMing and Jim's
> style of
> > > > > DMing has to do with bringing
> new
> > > > > characters
> > > > > > into a group.
> > > > > > Let's say that we have a
> new
> > > > > player joining us, and he has a
> > > > > character to
> > > > > > bring into the campaign. I
> will
> > > > > introduce that character within
> the
> > > > > first ten
> > > > > > minutes. It might be the
> > > stupidest
> > > > > introduction you have ever
> seen, and
> > > > > often
> > > > > > it makes no sense at all.
> > > > > > "The king told me to join
> your
> > > > > group."
> > > > > > "Um, the king has been
> dead
> > > for
> > > > > 20 years."
> > > > > > "Yes.....well...the
> > > > > king's....butler told me to
> join the
> > > > > group."
> > > > > > It makes no sense, but it
> gets
> > > > > the character into the group
> > > > > immediately, so
> > > > > > the player can enjoy
> themselves.
> > > > > > Jim is much more likely to
> > > detail
> > > > > an intricate, well plotted, and
> > > > > completely
> > > > > > rational way for the
> character to
> > > be
> > > > > introduced. His way will make
> > > sense in
> > > > > > terms of characterization, it
> will
> > > > > make sense in terms of plot,
> and it
> > > will
> > > > > > stand the test of time.
> However,
> > > the
> > > > > player may have to wait for 30-
> 60
> > > > > minutes
> > > > > > for everything to come
> together so
> > > > > they can play.
> > > > > > Opinions or comments on
> > > that? My
> > > > > basic point is not that one or
> the
> > > other
> > > > > > of us are a better DM, just
> that
> > > we
> > > > > prioritize the jobs of the DM
> two
> > > > > different
> > > > > > ways.
> > > > > > Now, on to the second
> part of
> > > > > Jim's e-mail; do we expect to
> > > succeed.
> > > > > Of
> > > > > > course we do. In every
> mission
> > > that
> > > > > I have ever been in, in any
> role-
> > > playing
> > > > > > game I have ever participated
> in,
> > > we
> > > > > have always succeeded.
> Sometimes
> > > there
> > > > > is
> > > > > > death, sometimes there are
> > > setbacks,
> > > > > but in the end, success is
> there.
> > > Am I
> > > > > > prepared for Magnus' death?
> Darn
> > > > > tootin'! If he should join the
> > > choir
> > > > > > invisible, so be it. I trust
> Jim
> > > > > completely as a DM, and I have
> no
> > > > > problem with
> > > > > > whatever happens. Perhaps he
> > > would
> > > > > come back, not as the king of
> the
> > > gods,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > as one of the smaller ones.
> > > Wouldn't
> > > > > that make the pantheon even more
> > > > > > interesting? Magnus would
> > > constantly
> > > > > be scheming to gain more
> power! It
> > > > > could
> > > > > > be the best thing that
> happens!
> > > > > > What about if the Riders
> don't
> > > > > gain the power of deities?
> What if
> > > > > another
> > > > > > group succeeds (say the Black
> > > > > Legion)? Again, no problem.
> Magnus
> > > > > will stay on
> > > > > > that world (with anyone who
> > > wishes)
> > > > > and try to wrest the power from
> > > them.
> > > > > That
> > > > > > could be some interesting
> > > adventures!
> > > > > > This is getting very
> long, so
> > > let
> > > > > me say this. Jim, I respect
> you as
> > > a
> > > > > DM.
> > > > > > I trust you as a DM. And I
> enjoy
> > > you
> > > > > as a DM. I understand that your
> > > style
> > > > > is
> > > > > > different from mine, which is
> a
> > > good
> > > > > thing, especially for Matt and
> > > Damon,
> > > > > since
> > > > > > it means that our adventures
> have
> > > a
> > > > > drastically different feel,
> giving
> > > them
> > > > > > greater chances at diverse
> role-
> > > > > playing. I am excited about
> your
> > > > > adventures.
> > > > > > My only problem was the
> amount of
> > > > > individual role-playing we have
> done
> > > > > the past
> > > > > > two weeks. You feel it was
> > > necessary
> > > > > for the plot. I feel a slightly
> > > > > > contrived, but quicker
> solution,
> > > > > would have been preferable. No
> harm
> > > > > done.
> > > > > > More comments?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim and Karen wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > OK, yesterday Damon and John
> > > got me
> > > > > back on course, and reduced my
> > > > > > > unconscious efforts to
> write the
> > > > > Lord of the Rings trilogy to a
> more
> > > > > > > manageable movie of the
> week.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > After some thought and
> planning
> > > > > last night, it occurred to me
> that I
> > > > > may be
> > > > > > > able to return the favor. :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think I know one reason
> why
> > > the
> > > > > interest level may have waned a
> bit
> > > the
> > > > > > > other night. It could come
> from
> > > > > deep-seated expectations that
> we as
> > > a
> > > > > group
> > > > > > > share about what is/isn't
> up to
> > > > > chance. For example, I think
> every
> > > > > player
> > > > > > > absolutely expected that the
> > > group
> > > > > would be gathered for the
> meeting in
> > > > > > > Sigil that we ended with.
> To be
> > > > > true, it had a 90% chance of
> > > happening.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here's why - Mylena really
> does
> > > > > have the only information
> available
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > party that lets them pursue
> the
> > > > > quest. If they lose her at this
> > > point,
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > > all over - someone else will
> > > have
> > > > > already won by the time they
> figure
> > > > > > > anything out. That's one
> reason
> > > > > why she was so surprised that
> > > Magnus was
> > > > > > > letting her take all the
> risk -
> > > > > just to give a sense of how I'm
> > > running
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > as DM, she could have either
> > > ended
> > > > > up dead and lost on an outer
> plane
> > > or
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > so frustrated that she jump
> ship
> > > > > and hook up with another
> faction.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I guess I'm hoping that we
> can
> > > have
> > > > > a more direct discussion today
> about
> > > > > > > where this is all leading.
> I
> > > sense
> > > > > a great deal of enthusiasm for
> the
> > > idea
> > > > > > > of a campaign world with
> some
> > > or a
> > > > > good number of our characters as
> > > gods -
> > > > > > > and that's good. It could
> be
> > > > > really cool. Then again, it
> could
> > > be
> > > > > cheesy.
> > > > > > > The whole reason that I'm
> > > writing
> > > > > this today is to get a handle on
> > > what
> > > > > > > everyone's expectations are.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For example, on Wednesday -
> I
> > > > > couldn't as DM simply "let"
> anyone
> > > > > escape.
> > > > > > > The current group(s) may
> well
> > > find
> > > > > themselves in difficult
> encounters
> > > with
> > > > > > > divine servants who will try
> > > their
> > > > > hardest to recapture the Riders.
> > > Those
> > > > > > > beings might succeed. And
> that
> > > > > would fly in the face of
> players who
> > > > > think
> > > > > > > that victory is guaranteed,
> or
> > > that
> > > > > I'm setting the stage for
> having the
> > > > > > > characters all free again.
> I
> > > think
> > > > > if anything will kill our game
> over
> > > > > > > time, it will be too much
> > > > > contrivance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Maybe I'm being so wordy to
> > > avoid
> > > > > coming across in the wrong way,
> but
> > > this
> > > > > > > seems to be a very important
> > > thing
> > > > > to discuss. For example -
> John, how
> > > > > > > would you feel if, in the
> > > course of
> > > > > a battle with the Black Legion,
> > > Magnus
> > > > > > > died - let's say, in one of
> > > those
> > > > > meteor swarms that he's so fond
> > > of? :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Another Rider could possibly
> > > take
> > > > > up the quest - and might even
> make
> > > all
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the big decisions in the
> end.
> > > As
> > > > > the only thing I will guarantee
> is
> > > that
> > > > > > > some Riders WILL have an
> > > > > opportunity to be gods, are you
> > > ready
> > > > > for a
> > > > > > > situation where Magnus is
> > > reborn as
> > > > > a major power, but only over
> elves
> > > or
> > > > > > > magic or something?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't want to pick on
> John -
> > > he
> > > > > has the good/bad job of playing
> the
> > > > > party
> > > > > > > leader. And maybe I'm too
> > > anal - I
> > > > > just think that we all need to
> give
> > > some
> > > > > > > thought to whether we're
> > > > > sacrificing excellent stories
> for
> > > the
> > > > > sake of
> > > > > > > requiring some long-term
> > > specific
> > > > > outcome.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
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