Re: Re[2]: Saskatchewan leads the way

From: Wynn Payne <wynn.payne@xxxxxxxxx>
To: dsp-ea-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 09:52:34 -0600

Hi Ed
You are a great example of reducing carbon.
What are your thoughts about electric cars based on this attached article?
Wynn
[image: image.png]

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 5:03 PM Chessor, Edward <echessor@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

HI Wynn

I have done a few more things,

I added insulation to the lid on our chest freezer, a sheet of mylar
coated bubble wrap.

I have insulated the hot water pipe from the heater to the kitchen.

I will likely remember more later.

Going to electric hot water in Alberta or Saskatchewan would be a backward
step for the environment.  Electric power generated by burning fossil fuel
leaves a bigger footprint than burning the gas in your home.  Same goes for
electric heat.  Much better to install solar panels on your roof.

I do recommend an electric kitchen range over gas for health reasons.  My
wife read today that gas ranges leak some methane, also not good for
climate change.

*From:* dsp-ea-general-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
dsp-ea-general-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Wynn Payne
*Sent:* October 28, 2022 2:30 PM
*To:* dsp-ea-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* Re: Re[2]: Saskatchewan leads the way

[*CAUTION:* Non-UBC Email]

You have done more than your share.

Thanks for the conversation

Wynn

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 12:03 PM Chessor, Edward <echessor@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Hello Wynn,

What have I done to limit our family carbon footprint?

I started with my choice of cars, first a Morris Minor, then a Morris
1100.  Both got over 35 mpg.  Then a Volvo 144, the smallest car I could
drive on Shell’s car allowance.  Always 4 cylinder cars, which was unusual
in the last century.

I have ridden bikes for most short shopping trips and commutes, sometimes
take the bus.

I replaced most of the single glazed windows in our Vancouver home with
double glazing in the 1970’s, the rest in 1990’s.  Added lots of insulation
in the attic and basement walls.  Replaced an oil fired warm air furnace
with a gas fired boiler in 1974.  The gas boiler system has 4 zones, so we
only heat part of the home, and keep stats set at 17 to 19 degrees.  We
used to set the a degree lower, something to do with age.

Yes, the Tesla is a net benefit to the environment.  The environmental
costs of building a Tesla are at most 50% greater than those of a Chev,
Ford or Toyota.  The environmental cost of electrical energy in BC is all
sunk in building dams, not insignificant but incremental costs are low.  We
can meet future needs with wind and solar at low environmental and dollar
cost.  Those sources integrate very well with hydro.

Solar and wind are working well in Alberta, are less costly than new
fossil fuel.  They should be expanded to meet all demand for 6 to 8 months
per year, gas could help through the winter.  Battery storage could help
with night time demand during renewables season.

Nuclear has worked, but many plants have been shut down and
de-commissioned at substantial cost.  The carbon footprint of construction
and disposal is significant, and nuclear waste disposal will have long term
impacts.  Financial costs are higher than wind and solar.  Environmental
costs of wind and solar are lower.

Used lithium batteries will be recycled, as lead-acid batteries have been
for over 60 years.

Test drive an EV, my current picks are the Hyundai Ionic 5 and Kia EV6.
They are way less expensive than similar Teslas.  Tesla’s main advantage is
in the navigation tech and Supercharging network, but not worth the
difference in price.

Take care

Ed Chessor

*From:* dsp-ea-general-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
dsp-ea-general-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Wynn Payne
*Sent:* October 28, 2022 10:18 AM
*To:* dsp-ea-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* Re: Re[2]: Saskatchewan leads the way

[*CAUTION:* Non-UBC Email]

Hi Ed

Thanks for the detailed information. You have convinced me that carbon
increase is causing a global problem. If a significant part of our country
is treed I suspect we are a net carbon absorbing country. I also believe
that as people living in a northern climate our need for fossil  fuels is
significantly greater than warmer parts of the world. I also think that our
opportunity for change is insignificant in relation to the major
polluters of the world in China and India. Our carbon tax program is making
our cost of living increase while China benefits from ignoring the
pollution and can therefore manufacture products at lower cost. The level
of smog in China has compelled the population to wearing masks to filter
the pollution.

I think until we properly use nuclear or geothermal power in our northern
climate our eclectic production is not geared to handle the needed energy
produced by wind and water alone. I don't think we have considered the full
cycle of energy production. What happens down the road to the discarded
batteries, wind turbines and solar panels needed to drive electric cars
let alone the carbon used to produce the  needed material for them?

Your challenge of what I am doing is a good one. It makes me think.Other
than trying to consume less I am not helping. Adding insulation value has
been a positive step to reduce demand.

What are you doing that others may follow your lead?

I don't think adding a carbon tax onto it's use is a Canadian solution
either. It just makes the product more expensive.

I think the energy problem is not one of production but of demand. As
long as there is a demand there is a need for production. By choking
production we just make  the product more expensive.

Do you think electric cars are helping the carbon problem when you
consider the energy needed to produce, use and dispose of it?

Your cabin without gas is a great start but I don't think that works in
Edmonton.

Wynn

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 10:43 AM Chessor, Edward <echessor@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Hi

I have been following climate science for 20 years or so.  I am convinced
that most of the change I have seen in my lifetime is human caused.  I too
remember when the Columbia Icefield ended a few hundred meters from the
highway.  I remember when no-one could imagine the Greenland ice cap
melting.

I was studying indoor air quality in the 1970’s.  Outdoor CO2 was about
300 parts per million.  Today it is close to 400 ppm.  Scientists have
analyzed ice cores going back several millennia and seen fluctuations in
CO2 content, but none close to this fast.

We are used to going to the supermarket and getting fresh vegetables year
round.  Areas where much of that food is grown are experiencing long term
drought.  Expect shrinking selection in the fruit and vegetable aisle for
the foreseeable future.

Expect heavy wildfire smoke over longer seasons most years for the rest of
our lives.

Coastal erosion will continue to accelerate.  Low elevation foreshore will
flood at high tide, as will coastal farm lands.

These are the on-going costs of producing and consuming fossil fuels.  The
magnitude of future costs will depend on how much fossil fuel we produce
and consume.  I bought a Tesla in 2018, and replaced my gas hot water tank
with an electric one this month.  The vacation home I built in 2010 has no
gas service.

What are you doing to shrink your carbon footprint?

Ed Chessor, P.Eng. former CIH (Certified Industrial Hygienist)

*From:* dsp-ea-general-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
dsp-ea-general-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *
walittleboots9@xxxxxxxxx
*Sent:* October 28, 2022 8:44 AM
*To:* dsp-ea-general <dsp-ea-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* Re[2]: Saskatchewan leads the way

[*CAUTION:* Non-UBC Email]

Canada, Norway, and Russia are said to be the only three countries to
benefit from global warming, for the reason you stated…

Of course, then we must keep the others out…

Willow

Sent from App for Gmail

Friday, October 28, 2022, 8:20 AM -0600 from dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <
dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

Wynn I believe the scientific evidence is overwhelming that most if not
all our recent climate changes are anthropogenic.The warming and cooling
cycles on our planet are well documented and have occurred over
millennia.Our current climate woes are rapid in evolutionary terms related
to the industrial revolution.Oddly Canada May benefit more than it
suffers.Large tracts of northern lands may become suitable for
agriculture.Here on the Island we may be able to grow heavier red wine
grapes that require more heat units.Others will be less fortunate.The
southwest US will dry up,Bangladesh will be inundated by the sea,millions
will die of hunger.It’s not a pretty picture.Bryan

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 27, 2022, at 4:38 PM, Wynn Payne <wynn.payne@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Malcolm

Thanks for contributing.

I totally agree our climate is changing. The arctic has less ice than in
the past. I drove by the Columbia ice fields the other day and found it sad
to see the amount the glacier has retreated since I was a kid.

I also believe the earth goes through warming and cooling cycles that
aren't man made. I don't think man caused the ice age to come upon an earth
that was very moist and swamp like in the era of dinosaurs nor did he cause
the ice age to retreat after that.

How much of climate change, do you think, is man made? As I understand it,
we can only control the manmade portion. If that portion of climate change
is relatively small, then our efforts, with current disastrous effects, are
deemed not too effective in the grand scheme of things.

Thoughts?

Wynn

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 5:14 PM Malcolm Palmer <malcolmfpalmer@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

The real question is what are we going to do about climate change?

I have heard skeptics deriding climate change as bogus but the effects we
have observed are consistent

with what the scientists have warned us about.  So, what effective
responses do we have?

Malcolm
------------------------------

*From:* dsp-ea-general-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <
dsp-ea-general-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of
DSP.EA.Large.Messages@xxxxxxxxx <dsp.ea.large.messages@xxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2022 12:32 PM
*To:* DSP-EA-General@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <DSP-EA-General@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* FW: Saskatchewan leads the way

*From:* Wynn Payne <wynn.payne@xxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* October 27, 2022 12:28 PM
*To:* DSP.EA.Large.Messages@xxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* Fwd: Saskatchewan leads the way

Is Saskatchewan correct?

Wynn

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: *Project Confederation* <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 8:05 AM
Subject: Saskatchewan leads the way
To: Wynn Payne <wynn.payne@xxxxxxxxx>

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<https://www.projectconfederation.ca/?e=a4a2549f7b566de26aa3d9ce475637e5&utm_source=albertainstitute&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pc_aa_2022_10_20_ab&n=1>

Wynn,

A lot of media attention of late has been focused on the Emergencies Act
testimonies in Ottawa and Danielle Smith’s rise to the Premier’s Office
here in Alberta.

However, the biggest development in federal/provincial politics in the
last week might actually have happened in Saskatchewan, where Premier Scott
Moe has taken a firm stance against the federal government in a document
entitled *Drawing the Line: Defending Saskatchewan's Economic Autonomy.*

The paper clearly sets out a problem and then proposes specific solutions.

First, the problem...

The Saskatchewan government has identified nine different federal climate
change policies that are estimated to cost the province a total of $111
billion between 2022 and 2035 - the approximate halfway point to the
federal government’s 2050 net-zero targets.

The costs of each of the nine policies are:

   - Federal Carbon Tax: $24.7 billion;
   - Oil and Gas Methane Mandate: $6.3 billion;
   - Oil and Gas Emissions Cap: $2.6 billion;
   - Fertilizer Mandate: $19.3 billion;
   - Clean Fuel Regulations: $34.9 billion;
   - Zero Emission Vehicle Mandate: $10.3 billion;
   - Federal Output Based Pricing System: $12.5 billion;
   - Agriculture Methane Initiatives: $0.5 billion;
   - Landfill Methane Mandate: $0.2 billion.

Don't forget - these are just the direct costs.

We all know that the energy industry powers every other industry and,
since energy is required to create almost every other product, as energy
prices increase, costs for consumer goods will undoubtedly rise across the
board as well.

Scott Moe and his team have a clear understanding of the problem and are
deeply concerned about the impacts federal environmental policy can have on
the economy.

For a province like Saskatchewan, where total provincial revenue for 2022
was just $17.2 billion, $111 billion is a gigantic cost.

And if that's the cost to our neighbours, imagine what it will cost here
in Alberta!

Remember too, this is just the first half of the federal government's 2050
plan!

The economic costs of Net Zero 2050 are completely lost on the Trudeau
government.

The 2021 Supreme Court of Canada ruling on the constitutionality of the
Carbon Tax, as we noted at the time, creates a dangerous precedent where
the federal government can essentially trample all over the constitutional
jurisdiction of provinces using the Peace, Order, and Good Governance
Clause embedded in the constitution.

This means that the Supreme Court has effectively ruled that the federal
government can take control of practically any issue, simply by claiming
that it is a matter of national concern - completely ignoring provincial
jurisdiction.

Consider that the definition of Confederation, as espoused by the Oxford
English Dictionary, is a union of sovereign groups or states united for
purposes of common action.

Instead, what we now have is a federal government that has decided, upon
the alter of climate change, to sacrifice our livelihoods and, with them,
the very idea of Canada itself.

If we want to save this country, we need substantial reforms to the way
this country is governed.

Thankfully, the Saskatchewan government's paper also proposes some
solutions that include:

   - Provincial legislation to clarify and protect constitutional rights
   belonging to the province.
   - Pursuing greater autonomy over immigration policy to ensure
   Saskatchewan has the people it needs.
   - Better recognition of Saskatchewan industry's contributions to
   sustainable growth – for example, developing a carbon credit market to
   support our natural resource industries.
   - Preparing to take legal actions, legislative or otherwise, to
   maintain control of electricity, fertilizer emission/use targets and oil
   and gas emissions/production.

Here at Project Confederation, we're very supportive of these ideas - in
fact, many of them are ideas we've been promoting not just for Alberta, but
for all of the west, since we launched as an organization.

So, props to Scott Moe and the Saskatchewan government for pushing us down
the right path.

With your continued support, we can't help but be excited about what we
are capable of as we move forward.

Having seen significant success in Alberta already, we will be expanding
our work all across Saskatchewan and the other western provinces in the
coming months, as we take on Ottawa and prepare for the onslaught of a
hostile federal government over the next few years.

If you'd like to get involved in our campaigns, you can sign up to
volunteer with us here
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We also need financial support to continue with our work.

If you can afford to help fund our important work, please click here to
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Thank you again to everyone for their help with this campaign and we look
forward to working with you on many more issues in the future.

Regards,

Josh Andrus
Executive Director
Project Confederation

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Re: Re[2]: Saskatchewan leads the way

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