<div dir='auto'>Amen, Jim Mann. Well said.</div><div
class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Nov. 6, 2022 3:56 p.m.,
Wynn Payne <wynn.payne@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:<br type="attribution"
/><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Jim<div>Thanks for your comments.
</div><div>I agree we lived our youth in a blessed time.</div><div>We strived
to give our children even more than we had but I think that philosophy took
away some initiative. We ended up teaching dependence instead of independence.
The generations went from being accountable for their actions to blaming others
for whatever happens.</div><div>Now, a couple of generations down the road, we
have chaos. Significant wars, homelessness not seen since the 1930's, drug
abuse and a generation ( with certainly some great exceptions) that expect the
government to give them everything. </div><div>Remember when you walked to
school by yourself. Today's world would now label you for child abuse if
you let your child expercise independence. . </div><div>I believe that when you
give someone something you take away their initiative and pride of ownership
they get in striving for something. <br /></div><div>The difference between
socialism and capitalism. </div><div>We are still so fortunate to live in
Canada. </div><div>This last crisis of COVID has taken a lot of the middle
class out of the economic system. Many lost their life savings though small
businesses that failed and the government became the safety net. The net result
is a national debt we will likely never recover from. We will become more
dependent on the government handout. The attitude is "They" should fix
it.</div><div><br /></div><div>Wynn </div><div><br /></div><div><br
/></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div></div><br /><div
class="elided-text"><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Nov 6, 2022 at 12:22 PM Jim Mann
<<a href="mailto:jimmann@shaw.ca";>jimmann@shaw.ca</a>> wrote:<br
/></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(
204 , 204 , 204 );padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div><p>It has been very
interesting reading the comments on climate change, causes and actions we can
take but I have difficulty in isolating climate change from all the other
things that are going on in the world and our country at present. First of
all, I believe that we are one of the most blessed generations of all time.
For the most part, we came into the world after the end of World War II and
have not experienced “global crises” really until these very early impacts of
climate change and the global pandemic of covid. I think we shall escape the
major impacts of these phenomena including environmental impacts,
socio-economic impacts and lifestyle impacts only because we will reach the end
of our life cycle before experiencing the most dire of their evolution and
their consequences.<u></u><u></u></p><p><u></u> <u></u></p><p>As we near the
end of our lives, we are witnessing catastrophes such as the war in Ukraine
where the rest of the world is either unwilling or unable to stop Putin and
Russia from the inhumane devastation of another country and the United Nations
is proving to be a joke with Russia having veto power over any consequential
resolutions. The threats from powerful nations such as Russia, China and
North Korea will not diminish. There may be “deferral actions” such as the
sanctions that are being implemented to defer the outcomes but there is no
solution.<u></u><u></u></p><p><u></u> <u></u></p><p>We are witnessing the
beginning of an increasing number of climate events that are beginning to have
an impact on our daily lives. It will not improve in our lifetime and there is
likely not even a long term solution. I think with the number of trees that we
have in Canada consuming carbon dioxide, that we are likely already carbon
neutral and, in any event, without China and India leading the “green charge”,
any actions by Canadians can only serve to “ease our conscience” and have zero
impact on the global climate change phenomena. Much like with the covid
pandemic where we focused 100% on prevention and 0% on treatment, we are
focusing Canadian efforts with the wrong focus. We can’t stop it so prepare to
deal with the consequences as best we can.<u></u><u></u></p><p><u></u>
<u></u></p><p>We are witnessing something in Canada referred to as
reconciliation. This is a never-ending discourse with no actual conclusion.
We cannot change history nor the consequences of colonization. We cannot solve
a problem by vilifying Sir John A. Macdonald and tearing down statues. We
cannot reach a conclusion where there is no benefit to the aggrieved party in
ever saying “enough – we are satisfied”. While wrongs were certainly done and
ill-conceived but well intended strategies were poorly executed, there is no
way to make up for the consequences.<u></u><u></u></p><p><u></u>
<u></u></p><p>We are witnessing a world and a nation where we can no longer
trust the media – either mainstream or the ever-increasing number of bloggers,
webcasters and other print or airwave sources. The only reliable source of
“the truth” is what we actually witness ourselves. The next time you listen to
what purports to be a newscast, ask yourself why that particular story was
presented and listen to hear the opinion components instead of pure factual
reports. Even where it is factual, why is only that side of the story being
presented. Watch how statistics are given to support a particular position but
that mislead in regard to the overall picture. The CBC in “reporting” on the
current inquiry into the government invocation of the emergency act spends 30%
of the time telling us what the witnesses are going to say, 10% of the time
allowing us to see selected live evidence and 60% of the time telling us what
they thought the witness said and what it meant and what their opinions are of
the witness and the evidence (see how statistics can be used to sound factual).
While I used to be a supporter of the CBC because they brought news and
entertainment to areas of Canada that could not be reached by other media and
broadcasters, I no longer am a supporter as they are biased, often incorrect
and have an agenda that I do not understand. We no longer have reporters, we
have “news commentators”. Where are the people like Lloyd Robertson, Knowlton
Nash and Peter Mansbridge? Thank you Rex Murphy! Or am I just being
naïve.<u></u><u></u></p><p><u></u> <u></u></p><p>We are witnessing a world and
a nation where “governments” are increasingly abusing their power for their own
political and personal agendas - most recently the Ontario and Quebec
governments use of the “notwithstanding” clause to violate the constitutional
rights of Canadian citizens and the federal governments invocation of the
Emergencies Act during the protest in Ottawa. One can argue that the ban on
handgun ownership in Canada is also an over-reach of authority – the major
consequence of which will NOT be a reduction in crime but an increase in the
“freedom movement” and protests by citizens.<u></u><u></u></p><p>And we are
witnessing the rise of the “freedom movement” where coups attempts such as the
January 6<sup>th</sup> storming of the Capitol and the “Freedom Convoy” all
across Canada will continue to grow and become increasingly violent. The
multiple convoys making up the “Freedom Convoy” and the fringe movements that
joined it was the “polite” Canadian version of the storming of the Capitol in
the United States. These resulted from government abuse of power, biased
media, an inability to get accurate sources of factual information, and much of
that is related to climate change and the pandemic. Many of those Canadian
“demonstrators” are our friends and neighbours concerned about their lives and
livelihood and we cannot and should not dismiss them as “nut
cases”.<u></u><u></u></p><p><u></u> <u></u></p><p>So yes, I have switched my
horse trailer which I pull with a big diesel truck over to LCD lighting (as I
have much of my home) and I set my thermostat a few degrees cooler and I do not
air condition my home and I dutifully sort my items into green bins of yard and
compostable waste and blue bins of recyclables and grey bins of the rest. But
most of all I am thankful for belonging to the generation that I belong to; the
generation that really lived through the best of times and ultimately benefited
from the challenges our ancestors faced and overcame and the generation that
will not face the worst consequences of the incredible debts our governments
have incurred and the pollution we have created.<u></u><u></u></p><p><u></u>
<u></u></p><p>YITBOS my brothers – we have had one hell of a
ride!!<u></u><u></u></p><p><u></u> <u></u></p><p><u></u> <u></u></p><p><u></u>
<u></u></p><div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb( 225 , 225 , 225 );padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p><b>From:</b> <a
href="mailto:dsp-ea-general-bounce@freelists.org";>dsp-ea-general-bounce@freelists.org</a>
<<a
href="mailto:dsp-ea-general-bounce@freelists.org";>dsp-ea-general-bounce@freelists.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Wynn Payne<br /><b>Sent:</b> November 4, 2022 2:05 PM<br
/><b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:dsp-ea-general@freelists.org";>dsp-ea-general@freelists.org</a><br
/><b>Subject:</b> Re: Natural verses anthropogenic climate
change<u></u><u></u></p></div><p><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p>Hi
Bryan<u></u><u></u></p><div><p>Thanks for the detailed explanation. This makes
sense to me.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p>As a second layer of the problem
how much does Canada contribute to the problem in relation to the whole world?
My understand is that China and India combined represent maybe 85% of the
problem and that Canada is maybe 1%. Are those good
estimates?<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p>If we are at say 3 % how much change
do we have to do a less significant contributor for the problem? ie we are
making our standard of living more expensive while not being a significant
contributor. Unless we can get China and India on side our efforts have little
effect while economically they manufacturer without the costs of reducing
carbon contribution.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p>This last summer there was
an initiative to reduce fertilizer use in grain production. That seemed to be
counter productive to supplying the world what it needs to survive.
<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p>To all, keep the comments coming while
remaining courteous.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p><u></u>
<u></u></p></div><div><p>Thanks<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p>Wynn
<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p>On Fri, Nov 4,
2022 at 2:52 PM R Bryan Waller <<a
href="mailto:dmarc-noreply@freelists.org";>dmarc-noreply@freelists.org</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid rgb( 204 , 204 , 204 );padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><p><br /><br /><br
/><br /><br />Over the millennia earth has been subject
to variable climate change indépendant of the actions of mankind.There have
been at least 5 distinct ice ages in the past 650,000 years.These changes are
due to a number of factors including the tilt of earth orbit,warming and
cooling of the oceans,volcanic activity and variability of energy output by the
sun.It is possible to chart these changes through the examination of ice cores
from the Greenland and Antarctic ice caps.In support of those who believe the
changes we are seeing are due to natural causes we are at a point in the epoch
where we are emerging from the most recent ice age and there is a natural
warming trend.<br />Having said that these natural trends are measured in tens
of thousands of years.Our current <br />accelerated warming trend has occurred
in the last 250 years ,a mere thane blink of an eye in time.It coïncides with
the industrial revolution and the burning of fossil fuels and explosive
population growth.<br />Earths temperature has increased 5 degrees since the
latest ice age more than 10,000 years ago which averages out to .05 degrees
every 100 years.Over the last 100 years the mean temperature of earth has
increased 1.4 degrees.The world is heating up exponentially faster than ever
before.That is an undeniable fact.Of course the warming is not a constant
throughout the globe.Some areas may be cooler than in the previous years.It is
the planet as a whole that is warming at a far greater rate than ever seen in
the determinable record.<br />The reason is the increase in the so called
greenhouse gases.The chief of these is carbon dioxide but also include other
gases such as methane and nitrous oxide.They are called greenhouse gases
because of particular qualities.They transmit light but absorb and radiate
infra red light.The world would be uninhabitable if we did not have greenhouse
gases because of their role in warming the planet.<br />By the examination of
air bubbles cast in ice cores scientists have determined over the course of
discernable history thé concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has
varied from 180 to 300 parts per million .Modern levels are at more than 400
parts per million and increasing rapidly.There is no question for the most part
these emissions come from the burning of fossil fuels.Scientist are able to
differentiate fossil fuel carbon dioxide from naturally occurring carbon
dioxide.Other greenhouse gases such as methane and nitrous oxide which have
an even greater warming effect are also increasing.Methane comes from rotting
garbage and belching cows and nitrous oxide from the use of nitrogen
fertilizers.<br />The evidence is overwhelming and is found in the rapidity of
these events far exceeding any natural discernable natural occurrences.There
are charts and scientific literature than explains it far better than I can but
here are the bare bones of the argument.As I have said this is an accepted
conclusion from the vast majority of climate scientists.There may be the odd
outlier but I have never seen one with any credibility.The earth has been able
to adapt to changes over the millennia but can it adapt to dramatic change over
centuries? We humans are ingenious creatures and perhaps we will adapt ….or
perhaps not.Bryan<br /><br />Sent from my
iPad<u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
