Hi Wynn,
We have so much to learn from one another. Thank you for your thoughts. I
remember well many challenging and enlightening conversation during my DSP
days.
Let's see where we are led.
Cheers
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 10:13 Wynn Payne, <wynn.payne@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Frank
Thanks to Suzanne for extending this offer. I think any opportunity to
grow is beneficial.
I don't consider myself racist but am willing to learn. I had a wide mix
of ethnic persons in my shop when I ran my retail printing operation. To
fit with the current discussion my front counter and lead estimator person
was one who had full treaty status. My press operator was a native of the
Philippines. I hired based on capability not based on race.
I do believe that when you sort people by race you are exhibiting racism.
To me that means creating any special group based on race is racism. The
question is how do you help minorities up without pulling the majority
down. I disagree with company policies that dictate hiring quotas for
specific segments of the population. ie race, gender etc.
I look forward to the conference call.
Wynn
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 9:42 AM Frank Lewis <livingincranbrook@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
*Kairos* (Ancient Greek: καιρός) is an Ancient Greek word *meaning* the
right, critical, or opportune moment. The ancient Greeks had two words for
time: chronos (χρόνος) and *kairos*. The former refers to chronological
or sequential time, while the latter signifies a proper or opportune time
for action.
Brothers I think we have arrived at a place of important conversation.
Yes we are blessed with fine educations. Yes we have poked the bear with a
topic that is front and centre...'racism'.
Taking from the Wikipedia meaning of KAIROS, this maybe 'a proper or
opportune time for action'.
My partner is a consultant in the adult education field. She has
participated in multicultural groups as participant and coordinator. As
well much of her work is as a First Nations education facilitator in Treaty
8 and the unceded territories in B.C.
In my sharing this wonderful brouhaha with Suzanne our discussion
evolved to a wider perspective...racism. Perhaps a 180 is needed here. We
people of white privilege* have an opportunity to understand our racism.
So what action can be taken Brothers? If there is an interest, Suzanne is
willing to undertake a ZOOM or WEBEX faciltative conversation on white
privilege and our specific role in racism.
I would ask Bob Thomlinson to be the point person (I.e. gatherer of names
of those who would find this opportunity helpful AND whether a day or
evening session would be preferred) BTW Suzanne has the technology to make
this work.
* Brother Mike Hart our black brother would be a wonderful addition.
However I understand we don't have a link to Mike.
YITBOS
Frank and Suzanne
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 08:05 Bob Thomlinson, <bthomlinson@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hello All,
I just want to clarify that Ken Marshall has NOT left the group. As the
administrator it is my job to confirm intentions before making changes to
the automated email distribution system. Although Ken’s comments may not
have been clear, it was not his intention to drop out, only to indicate
that he will consider dropping out if we start circulating this type of
venom on a regular basis.
To Jim Farmilo, specifically - I suspect that you might have thought
Ken’s annoyance was directed at you, but that was never my impression. The
way this email group chat works, members typically Reply to previous emails
and sometimes, due to the timing of when they read their email, they may be
responding to a recent message with comments about an earlier message.
Email has some inherent limitations when used for group chats so
misunderstanding can arise if we are not careful. I am sure you have all
experienced this type of misunderstanding before.
I personally believe this has been a great forum for discussing
difficult subjects and I appreciate the broad range of life experiences and
constructive opinions that have been exchanged. I did not respond on this
particular topic because I recognised the racist style and just deleted the
original posing without finishing it. I get enough of that from a few
compulsive forwarders in my golf group, who seem to think that stuff is
funny. Norm has already apologised and indicated that his first impression
was to NOT post the message because he didn’t agree with it but thought it
would provoke some discussion. It certainly did provoke discussion.
I would be very disappointed to see this group revert to just
circulating jokes and videos from the Internet. I agree with the comments
that arrived this morning from both Dave Kerr and John Wellar, as well as
the earlier contributions from others. We are all mature seniors with good
educations and a wealth of experiences to bring to any discussion topic. I
hope it continues.
To finish, I did contact Richard Mathias and he did request to be
removed from the group distribution list. Since I don’t remember him ever
replying before, he may have lost interest much earlier – we just don’t
know and should not assume we know his reasons. Richard did want to stay on
the 2nd email list for those who only want significant announcements or
updates. In his response to my inquiry Richard said, “*As a note, I was
a medical health officer for a first nations group here in BC and quite
familiar with the damage done*”.
YITBOS
Bob T
*From:* dsp-ea-general-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <
dsp-ea-general-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *On Behalf Of *akfarmilo2
*Sent:* February 21, 2021 4:54 PM
*To:* dsp-ea-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* Re: What is in the Budget for Seniors?
Wynn and other Brothers
I apologize to any of you that were upset by my post. I thought this
was also a forum for exchange of ideas in order to learn from others with
different knowledge and experience.
I will keep discussions off this venue from now on.
Jim Farmilo
Sent from my Samsung device over Bell's LTE network.
-------- Original message --------
From: Wynn Payne <wynn.payne@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 21-02-2021 17:52 (GMT-05:00)
To: Delta Sig master list <dsp-ea-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Bob
Thomlinson." <bthomlinson@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: What is in the Budget for Seniors?
I will take you off the general communication list as we have Rick
Mathias
Wynn
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 3:19 PM Ken Marshall <tokfmx@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
If a brother receiving this crap chooses to circulate it further rather
than to delete it, please delete me from the distribution list.
Kenneth Marshall
On Feb 21, 2021, at 9:56 AM, akfarmilo2 <akfarmilo2@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
So the pot was well stirred on this one.
I have a few comments, never one to be shy about these discussions.
First, there is a saying along the lines "Those who ignore (forget) the
past are bound to repeat it."
There is a corollory that "Those who re-write (deny) the past are
already repeating it"
Humanity--all of us-- have ancestors that did things that are today
considered horrible. Some were crimes at the time and some were considered
"normal" or rationalized by the views of one group or another. Nothing is
different today....we are still doing it. Examples: we've worked hard
so..., We're handicapped so...., We're University graduates so... So does
that mean we should have advantages others cannot have, restrict others for
our benefit, are somehow better than others or convert, ignore, suppress,
even get rid of some other group?
Horrible things occurred in the past. No doubt for Canada the
residential school and treatment of indigenous people at residential
schools was an arrogant and insensitive decision that hurt a lot of people.
Some survivors are still hurting or just recovering two generations later.
Are we responsible for our ancestors' actions?
I think not, but there are things we can do to help those who are still
hurting from the way they were treated. Most importantly, we should not
repeat the same mistakes. Obviously this means no more residential schools
but also means we do not presume to know how to "fix" the residual
problems. Iny view, there has to be an indigenous resolution, developed,
driven and delivered by the indigenous commumities themselves. We have to
respect indigenous cultures and ways or we are repeating the same behavior
as in the past. Other cultures do not know what is best for them, but
rather support if needed.
Lastly, we should consider the ongoing cycle caused by focusing on blame
for past acts (which cannot be changed) and losing focus on meaningful
remediation which is at least somewhat in our control.
YITBOS
Jim
Sent from my Samsung device over Bell's LTE network.
-------- Original message --------
From: Norm Larkins <normlarkins@xxxxxxxx>
Date: 21-02-2021 10:46 (GMT-05:00)
To: dsp-ea-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: What is in the Budget for Seniors?
Thanks Bob
I especially appreciate your 3rd paragraph. I spent several days
wondering if I should forward such an email which under normal
circumstances I would simply delete. I chose to forward it thinking it
would generate some discussion and inserted the caution at the beginning as
I knew it would offend some, but others perhaps less so. It certainly is
not my opinion, but it also certainly is the opinion of a significant
number of my generation. I thought it appropriate that others know that
this is circulating. Being new to the Communication Group maybe I don't
appreciate what it is meant to be or to accomplish.
Norm
*Sent:* Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 12:14 AM
*From:* "Robert Ramsay" <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*To:* "dsp-ea-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <dsp-ea-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* Re: What is in the Budget for Seniors?
I think both views presented so far have been very short-sighted. First
of all, I recognize that the residential schools were devastating to many
indigenous families. Some of them managed to get over that and become
contributing members of society. I know, because I employed some who were
excellent employees; one was among the best technologists I ever worked
with.
Others did not do so well; the system totally failed them, and they
became the problem ones. And we are still not serving them well.
Second, I resent being called part of any group that is “unacceptable”.
Every post to this site is the responsibility of the individual posting,
and does not reflect the attitudes of the group. We can each have our own
views on this or any other topic, but closing the door to a view you don’t
like is not going to change anyone’s opinion.
We have come from many backgrounds, some much more privileged than
others but we in this group have been given some very good opportunities,
having lived a relatively sheltered life and having chosen to obtain an
above-average education. That was not available to most indigenous people
because of the way they were thought of and treated by their “conquerors”.
We have all made our beds, and now we lie in them. What anyone has made
of himself is his own issue. But we need to consider the background when we
relate to indigenous people. In general, they lost far more than any of us.
Bob Ramsay
bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Feb 20, 2021, at 10:02 PM, richardmathias <mathias@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Our group has just made the unacceptable list and will now be listed
as junk mail
May you go to residential schools with their abuse and mortality. I had
hoped that a university education would allow a much more critical
appraisal than this.
Good Bye
Richard
On Feb 20, 2021, at 11:28 AM, Norm Larkins <normlarkins@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
[*CAUTION:* Non-UBC Email]
*Trudeau, what do Seniors get in the new Budget?*
These alleged truths will offend some and get support from others.
After reading this, I want you to think about those ResidentialSchools - while we small town and country kids were going to one-roomed
schools that housed eight grades with only one teacher and our parents were
buying our books, school supplies and clothing, the Indigenous native kids
were in schools where they got a more balanced education, free room and
board, free school books, free supplies (pencils, notebooks, etc.) and
clothing.
We were also abused and bullied by the heads of the schools. Oh yes,they are complaining that they lost their language. Do they think that we,
the immigrants from Eastern Europe, were able to continue to speak our
native tongue in schools? No! We all learned to speak, read and write in
English and were proud to have the opportunity and contribute to the
development of this great country.
So, Mr. Trudeau, what do Seniors get in the new Budget?
Seniors outnumber Natives, so maybe you will resolve Seniorsgrievances sooner if Seniors choose to block the Trans-Canada Highway or
the CN Rail lines?
When reporters ask the protesting Seniors what they want, the Seniorscan answer "The same as the Natives have been getting for years." (which
is free dental, free eye care, free prescriptions, free
post-secondary education, free transportation, no tax on gas and other
commodities, no income tax, no tax on vehicles, free housing and many other
things, all paid for by us, the tax payer.)
Seniors have paid taxes all their lives! Natives do not pay taxes !!
And recently, now 600,000 Metis are considered Natives. Well Canada isalso my home and Native land so I should be considered a Native since some
of us too, were born here.
Seniors want the same as the Attawapiskat Band Members received fromthe Federal Government in 2014, $34 million for just 1500 people
(that's $22,666 each) TAX FREE!
Instead, the Federal Government pays Seniors $7,200 in Social Security(and they still have to pay tax on that) after working 50 plus years, and
AFTER they've paid their own way, their own kid's way, AND the Natives' Way.
And the natives are demonstrating "Idle No More" and "Pipelines".Really??
It is time for seniors to react! *We are just as entitled to protestas are the Natives.*
*Something is very wrong with this picture.*
Send this to every senior you know.
