[drivingpairs] (auto-response) Re: drivingpairs Digest V2 #31
- From: afoster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- To: drivingpairs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: 5 Feb 2003 23:14:08 -0800
I am pleased to announce that I have joined my brother
in our new company - FOSTER REAL ESTATE SERVICES. I
still concentrate on residential real estate and
Murray handles the commercial market. We look forward
to assisting with your real estate needs in the
future! My phone number is still (901)335-2403 and my
new e-mail address is afoster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thanks,
Andrew L. Foster
Foster Real Estate Services
1770 Kirby Parkway #109
Memphis TN 38138
----------- Original message follows -----------
-- Attached file included as plaintext by Ecartis --
Return-Path: <drivingpairs-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Delivered-To: coldwellbanker.com%afoster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Received: (cpmta 28035 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 23:13:44 -0800
Received: from 206.53.239.180 (HELO turing.freelists.org)
by smtp.c007.snv.cp.net (209.228.33.237) with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 23:13:44 -0800
X-Received: 6 Feb 2003 07:13:44 GMT
Received: from turing.(none) (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP
id BDE8B390BBE; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 02:05:42 -0500 (EST)
Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list drivingpairs); Thu, 06 Feb 2003 02:05:39
-0500 (EST)
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 02:05:39 -0500 (EST)
From: FreeLists Mailing List Manager <ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: drivingpairs digest users <ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: drivingpairs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: drivingpairs Digest V2 #31
Precedence: normal
Message-Id: <20030206070542.BDE8B390BBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
drivingpairs Digest Wed, 05 Feb 2003 Volume: 02 Issue: 031
In This Issue:
[drivingpairs] Re: Stallion Pairs
[drivingpairs] Re: stallion pairs??
[drivingpairs] Re: Neck Yokes-Long
[drivingpairs] Stallion Use-long
[drivingpairs] Calender-Breast Collar
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:19:43 -0500
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: Neck Yokes-Long
From: Robyn Cuffey <robyn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
My Eagle has a steel pole that pins to the carriage but hangs on a
spring to adjust the height. It has a crab (SP?) end that pulls the neck
straps sideways from the collars. I was told this is a drop pole because
it can be released on to the ground. I have always been concerned about
it pulling the horses sideways. Whenever I go to clinics or talk to more
experienced pair drivers they tell me to keep my pole straps VERY short
but that pulls more sideways. How do you prevent the horses from going
crooked or prevent rubs on their shoulders. I am hoping to do
competitive driving this summer and am already concerned about rubs. The
spring does allow the pole to bounce
and I would think that could sore up the top of their necks. It actually
bounces more when they walk.
My first down the road pair experience was with an old wooden drop pole
with a yoke. (only my second time driving pair) 50 yards from my
driveway one horse started to turn, the yoke "ring" broke (it was old
and the safety strap was torn) and down it went. All would have been
well if I had pulled back on both reins but I thought I should stop the
turning horse by pulling the rein on that side and I managed to pull the
off horse so sideways he fell over the pole in a heap in the road. Not
good. Since then I have avoided any leather attachment setup.
Robyn
On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 01:03 PM, kathy robertson wrote:
>
> I am going to say no to converting your present pole.
>
> There are three general classes of neck yoke poles.
> Each works on the same principles, a yoke between
> horses, but poles are NOT interchangable between the
> styles of yokes.
>
> The first is the marathon pole for marathon vehicles.
> Usually spring loaded to carry itself on the front of
> vehicle. No weight on horses necks. Short pole made
> of metal tubing, so yoke ends at horses chest.
> Nothing sticking beyond the pole. Fits MODERN
> vehicles, usually mostly metal ones.
>
> Second is the drop pole used on buggies. Very light,
> and pretty long. This is the one used with light
> weight, American vehicles, buggy types, surreys. Name
> comes from being able to drop to the ground when not
> harnessed. Yoke must hold pole up when driving. Pole
> fastened to vehicle front with bolt, clip pins, which
> allow an up and down motion for horse movement and
> gentle hills in a road. Yoke leather tab slides over
> the end of pole. Pole end has a cap with a raised
> collar about 10" back to prevent yoke from running up
> the pole. Pole should have a safety strap to fasten
> around yoke. Strap is to prevent yoke from falling
> off the end, by accident. Yoke should stay on until
> safety strap is unfastened! Pole is longer than a
> marathon pole would be, plus extra length beyond the
> yoke. This allows horses to be hitched comfortably,
> not tightly but not very loose either. Traces should
> be tight before pushing yoke. Bigger horses would
> need longer pole to not kick vehicle when trotting
> fast. Yoke attachment plus straps to collar, will
> allow more slack/play, than marathon yoke clips. I
> would recommend using neck collars, not breast collars
> for this kind of yoke. The horses will have to
> support the pole weight the whole time they are
> hitched. A neck collar is wider to spread load on a
> bigger neck area. Evener with singletrees is how
> traces attach at vehicle.
>
> Third type of neck yoke is the draft horse hitch,
> usually seen on big wagons. That neck yoke is large,
> thick with a big metal ring to fit over the heavy
> dropped pole used on wagons. Pole end sticks out of
> neck yoke ring a fair length, to prevent yoke coming
> off by accident. There is a stopper on the bottom of
> pole to prevent yoke running up the pole. Extra
> length of pole gives horses control of vehicle as well
> as preventing accidental yoke coming off. Draft horse
> style hitching is usually pretty loose, since they
> have a long time in harness. Don't want to sore the
> horse, but does give more room before horses and yoke
> get in draft. Extra pole length beyond yoke stopper
> is REALLY needed. Also may be used to put more horses
> out front, like a four or six, so additional divider
> pole and eveners would be hung off the pole's end on
> wagon. Again, neck collars are recommended. Wagon
> poles are VERY heavy. Pole weight is on horse necks
> the whole time horses are hitched.
>
> Both the dropped pole and wagon poles must have extra
> pole length beyond yoke or safety strap to prevent
> yoke from coming off. Too long of traces allow horses
> out too far. They can push yoke off the end of pole.
> Removing the yoke will allow the pole to DROP
> instantly. It WILL spear into the ground, stopping
> vehicle, usually creating a bad accident, since horse
> have NOT stopped. Pole might slide on pavement. I
> don't want to picture it!
>
> Fixed polesstick out the front of vehicle, no give,
> hold themselves up in front of vehicle, use pole heads
> with rings for straps or chains. These do not change
> into any other kind of pole. Vehicle must first be
> suitable for a yoke style pole. Fixed poles are
> HEAVY, THICK, because horses use the long pole to
> control the vehicle (usually heavier than a buggy) for
> turns, stopping. Fixed pole should stick out past
> horses heads to lessen the angle of pull sideways.
> Long pole makes strap to chest almost staight ahead.
> Horses stopping, are almost straight back, in their
> push against the breeching and pole straps of chest
> connection. Martingales ARE recommended. There is a
> mathmatical formula for length of fixed pole and horse
> size, to get the best use of animals. A size table is
> posted at the ADS site.
>
> Perhaps you can post some pictures. We are better
> able to advise, when we see what you are working with.
> However if vehicle has got a fixed pole, it probably
> won't change well. Body designed to work a certain
> way. Many vehicles available with other pole
> attachments, that might suit you better, if you wish
> to change. Perhaps someone local can let you see a
> drop pole, modern or marathon vehicle in action. Each
> style has good and bad. You may dislike them after
> seeing them in use!
>
> Kathy Robertson
>
>> Those of you who use a yoke on your pole - that
>> seems like a good idea. My pole
>> now has the loops right on the end. I looked in the
>> Witmer catalog and saw 3
>> yokes. They all seem to have a little leather tab
>> with a hole in it as the
>> center element. Can I just take the crab off my
>> (wooden)pole and attach the
>> yoke? What kind of hardware do you need to attach
>> the leather tab to the pole?
>> Neither my husband nor I are all that experienced
>> with driving a pair, but he
>> is an engineer and _very_ good at making stuff. I
>> did get a very good reminder
>> to have some safety backup keeping the yoke on the
>> pole - that certainly seems
>> like a good idea.
>> Stephanie
>> Blasted Rock Farm
>> Naples, NY
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 22:44:24 -0500
>> From: dogsnponies@xxxxxx
>> Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: Marathon yoke
>>
>>
>> My old boyfriend made me one using a spare
>> swingletree from the carraige. Took a little
>> ingenuity and a few trips to the hardware/auto parts
>> store. They don't come cheap from the manufacturers
>> and unless you are ordering it on the pole to begin
>> with- even worse. I have a very clever metal
>> fabricator here in NJ that helps me with a lot of
>> modifications.
>> Tracey
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of drivingpairs Digest V2 #27
>> *********************************
>>
> _________________________________________________________
>> To Unsubscribe, change to Digest or Vacation mode go
>> to:
>> http://www.drivingpairs.com/dpmem.html
>>
> `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> _________________________________________________________
> To Unsubscribe, change to Digest or Vacation mode go to:
> http://www.drivingpairs.com/dpmem.html
> `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:47:27 -0800 (PST)
From: JLO <cicera65@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: Stallion Pairs
Well, I've trained many a mini. That is a WHOLE other world. They are
not nearly the same as two 1000 lb Cob stallions or even my two 600
lb section A's. My boys are NEVER allowed to behave badly. They can
display a bit of excitment while breeding, but not in any other
circumstance. We plan to put a ton of mileage on Comet before we ever
even think about pairing him. Louie, his potential partner, is only 2
now, so in my opinion he will not be broke for another year. I feel
it is a criminal act to start younger than three. I know that is a
very personal decision, but for me it would literally keep me up
nights worrying what I was doing to his future soundness.
Same situation for the Section A team. Dude is being started now (age
5), Gator is a year away from even thinking about being hooked.
Just wanted to know if there were any crazies out there doing this
with the bigger boys. Both our pairs will be salt and pepper. Each
team will have a black pony. The other half of the teams will be
lighter in color. One Buckskin and one Chestnut. Oh and we will need
navigators for both teams LOL
Jodi in Morriston FL...who can never be a navigator under any circumstances.
------------------------------
From: "Don Hayes family" <djthayes@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: stallion pairs??
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 07:56:16 -0600
Well, no, I haven't personally driven any stallions, in any combinations.
However, the same things apply as with any other combination you want to
drive together in any type of multiple. That is: Are they good single? Do
they generally get along in other situations? When handling them in ANY
situation, are YOU in charge? I don't think it matters what size or breed
they are, some will do fine and some will never work. This is no different
than a combination of any gender. Some will work, and some won't. If you
don't feel that you can judge for yourself, get a trainer to help you decide
if the ones you choose will indeed work the way you desire. A good trainer
should be able to evaluate them for you for the price of 1 or 2 lessons.
Cheap enough to prevent a disaster.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "JLO" <cicera65@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <drivingpairs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:15 AM
Subject: [drivingpairs] stallion pairs??
>
> I was wondering if anyone has ever driven a pair of stallions?? We
> have two potential pairs of stallions in our future. So far we have
> one of each pair in training. Comet our senior stallion already
> drives and we have a buckskin Cob up and coming that we would love to
> pair with him. I have Dude, our Section A, well on his way to being
> driven and would just love to pair him with Gator, our coming 2yr old
> Section A, some day in the not too distant future.
>
> Can anyone tell me if the has been done? There are times I think it's
> a fabulous idea and then times I think that Russ and I have lost our
> minds. They would look SPECTACULAR!!!
>
> Jodi in Morriston FL
>
> _________________________________________________________
> To Unsubscribe, change to Digest or Vacation mode go to:
> http://www.drivingpairs.com/dpmem.html
> `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
------------------------------
From: "Don Hayes family" <djthayes@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: Neck Yokes-Long
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:45:25 -0600
This is exactly why I don't like the leather attachment for a neck yoke.
More modern, and safer, attachments are available. I do have an old "buggy"
yoke that has a metal "ring" that replaces the leather piece. It is about an
inch or so wide, fastens to a similar ring on the yoke with a swivel, and is
(well, was) lined with leather where is slides onto the pole end. I don't
know if these are being made by anyone anymore or not. I don't remember
seeing any in the catalogs that we get. These certainly look a lot safer to
me than the leather flap with a hole in it!
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robyn Cuffey" <robyn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> My first down the road pair experience was with an old wooden drop pole
> with a yoke. (only my second time driving pair) 50 yards from my
> driveway one horse started to turn, the yoke "ring" broke (it was old
> and the safety strap was torn) and down it went. All would have been
> well if I had pulled back on both reins but I thought I should stop the
> turning horse by pulling the rein on that side and I managed to pull the
> off horse so sideways he fell over the pole in a heap in the road. Not
> good. Since then I have avoided any leather attachment setup.
> Robyn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:04:50 -0800 (PST)
From: kathy robertson <goodhors@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Stallion Use-long
First, let me say there are many wonderful stallions
out in the performance world, doing their best work,
with skillful handlers. That said, all stallions are
not equal in temperment, or current temptations to act
like a stallion, so there are badly behaved stallions
who show up also.
Stallion's first thought is breeding, and that must be
kept in mind at ALL times, in EVERY situation. You
can not control the surroundings of every place you
take him. WE MARE OWNERS are not going to be real
considerate of him reacting to our mares in season.
Even if we are so stupid as to stop right beside him
or parade by him with tail in the air. It is always
going to be HIS fault for reacting. Harnessed, he has
to be no reaction, despite provocation!!!
Stallions I have seen being used, are as single
stallion in a pair or team. Stallions used as a
working horse are SELDOM/NEVER being bred during work
season. This means the WHOLE show season. Seems to
be part of the group thinking deal. You work when
with other horses, don't breed them. European stud
farms often have stallion hitches. However they are
not competing breeding stallions, and often do not get
the stallions out into group things like shows. Just
use the hitches as work training for young stallions.
They are more strict on evaluation of horse and a
little more age, before breeding.
Stallions are competitive about breeding, and will
often fight or attempt to fight, with another stallion
or strong gelding, they perceive as trying to infringe
on territory or mares. Spring and summer, show
season,
is high hormone time. Stallions being bred, are much
more ready to react, strongly, than non-breeding
stallions. Non-breeding, never been bred, stallions
react also, just usually have a little longer fuse.
They just get thinking of other things, and handler is
often way down the list, whether at home or away. It
is the nature of the beast, even good training is not
fail safe, though usually sufficient.
I don't know of any people driving pairs of stallions.
Some mixed pairs, often draft horses. Kennebec Count
is the most famous stallion driven, in mixed pairs, of
gelding and mare, partners. Don't know if the mare
was given any hormone treatment, as is common today,
was a long time ago. Count got super training,
experienced handlers for his varied exposure to
situations. Wonderful mind on the horse. Still,
there was only ONE stallion to deal with if problem
came up.
You don't say if young horses are stallions or
geldings, so I am presuming stallion, since you said
stallion pair. I would think that driving the two
stallions as a pair is possible. However you would be
better/safer? if one was gelded. Or if young horse
was never bred, to reduce competitive side. Less
horses to watch for reactions. However I am also
thinking you will wish to breed young horse or he
would be gelded. Older horse still may not like him
as a stallion. Some stallions hate each other.
I know you are in Florida, do horses show seasonal
changes with shorter days?
We have seen the best luck with colts, starting
things in late fall, short day light. Hormones are
way down, less argument, silliness. Stallions pay
attention better. Our stallion, broke and trained,
came from a Canadian ranch. They put the colt
training as the regular fall program. They ride/work
the 4 year olds daily, all genders and horses are
ready for logging training when the snow falls. This
is daily handling, horses get 1/2 day use, get tired.
Change horses for afternoon work. Short northern days.
No stallions bred until six. Not going to breed
brainless horses, must be trainable before breeding.
Five year olds are the summer work horses. Some don't
make stallions, getting cut for geldings. Any of the
stallion band was usable, before being given a herd.
Hard to replicate that kind of training without a
large ranch and hired help. Our stallion drove well
with his gelding companion. When we drove him he was
not being used as a breeding stallion. Big tough,
gelding lived with him all the time, and accepted 2nd
place in herd of two. Gelding was reliable and would
do as told even if stallion was distracted. VERY
IMPORTANT to have one listening horse. We gelded the
stallion and had a NICE pair of geldings. No real
use to us as a breeding horse, we are not breeders.
Though he had bred mares, thought well of himself, was
a nice, easy-to-live-with stallion. I think it helped
a lot that he had a companion. Was used to being a
herd horse.
I think it is an interesting idea driving a pair of
stallions, but see a lot of drawbacks. I don't think
it is something I would want to do.
A mixed pair would be safer, only one to watch hard,
particularly since you are inexperienced. I would
think getting older stallion, pair trained, going
with someone reliable first, would be the next step to
look at. Maybe there is a quiet gelding you could
rent as a pair schoolmaster? Younger horse would be
very confused, no help at all. Putting together two
horses, inexperienced in pairs, is a BAD thing!!
Between pair ignorant, young horse and shorter fused
older horse (stallions ARE sensitive), add stallion
competition, pair sounds dangerous, approached this
way.
If you desperatly want a pair to show off both
stallions, geld the younger horses. Get the younger
horses broke to drive, each trained to a pair, with
schoolmaster horse. Do you have pair trained mares for
schooling geldings? Then geldings all trained,
knowledgable, can be put with stallion in pair. Both
horses are able to understand the job and work with
you and partner horse. No reason for horses to be
upset, except that each is new to being with this
partner. Stalling beside each other can reduce that
newness also. You want all the factors for success to
be on your side, so everyone comes out winners.
Multiples can go to pieces in a heartbeat, just mares
and geldings. Asking stallions, you have to be
EXTREMELY well prepared for the task.
I would also go for lessons in pair handling. For
what you plan, this should be a MUST DO. Continental
Acres has trainers. Larry Poulin and Sterling Graburn
are available in Florida. Both VERY good multiples
drivers. They would show you rein adjustments, rein
handling, hitching, things that have never crossed
your mind, with pairs. This preparation is NEEDED
even if you only want to drive down the road, never
show. Even the very best stallion, is a different
game than a mare or gelding. It takes skill and
training to make a good driving horse. Sounds like
your stallion has the basics, just have to build on
them. Breeding and working stallion, can often be
done, but not if you make it too complicated, getting
him too frustrated to listen.
Let us know how it goes, if you pursue the pair idea.
It will be a long-term goal.
Kathy Robertson
> I was wondering if anyone has ever driven a pair of
> stallions?? We
> have two potential pairs of stallions in our future.
> So far we have
> one of each pair in training. Comet our senior
> stallion already
> drives and we have a buckskin Cob up and coming that
> we would love to
> pair with him. I have Dude, our Section A, well on
> his way to being
> driven and would just love to pair him with Gator,
> our coming 2yr old
> Section A, some day in the not too distant future.
>
> Can anyone tell me if the has been done? There are
> times I think it's
> a fabulous idea and then times I think that Russ and
> I have lost our
> minds. They would look SPECTACULAR!!!
>
> Jodi in Morriston FL
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:31:55 -0800 (PST)
From: kathy robertson <goodhors@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Calender-Breast Collar
If you check out the September picture of the pair,
the breast collars show off-set rings, on pole head
marathon vehicle. Having them even more off-set,
would reduce the pulling sideways, but need bigger
chested animals. You don't want ring on point of
shoulder.
I still think you need length, on pole/pole head,
for vehicle control. That gets it beyond horse chest,
for tight (marathon vehicle) turns. Horses can lift
heads for clearance, not the pole end. For US, the
yoke works better. Short pole with straight pull, no
sideways pulling, centered chest ring attachments. We
do have off-set rings on Tedman leader harness, to use
with traditional carriage pole head. Works fine even
though that is a long pole, when driving dressage
carriage.
In true, built-for-pair marathon harness, the
shoulder strap is very wide. Our big horses have
almost 4" shoulder strap. Not the same as a converted
single harness to pair. The neck strap also has a
support strap that comes around lower neck, to hold up
the front of the heavy padded breast collar. Visible
in picture, but loose with pole up. This harness has
off-set support strap, with only one ring on chest.
Our neck support strap is centered to hang on chest,
with one center ring on wheelers, and run thru both
leaders (we have two rings, right and left on both
leaders) offset rings, so coupler strap doesn't pull
breastcollars down. Yoke works with off-set rings
too. WE just wanted centered rings, we think they are
better for US. Many designs available.
I think September, Calendar girl Tracy posted above,
on pole heads. My take on Bellcrown's UK higher sales
of pole heads, over yokes, is training. There are a
LOT of traditionally trained drivers, trainers of
drivers, who also do Pleasure Carriages and CDE.
Began training in nice carriages, with pole heads, so
they buy the same thing when getting a marathon
vehicle. Yokes are not commonly seen in UK except on
drafts. Can be stuck in thinking because of training
ideas, how you were taught. Yokes are draft thing,
not CDE!
More U.S. drivers, start with cart for fun, find
driving clubs. Get exposed to buggy pairs, drafts,
before CDE. Makes it easier to see the efficiency of
harnessing system. Less of traditional, pole head,
carriage driving exposure. Also yoke is more common,
any style, in the U.S. U.S. drivers are quite willing
to try new things.
Using a yoke with a team of four is unusual, but we
have been happy with it, horses move well. Little
more work to hitch, planning pole springing,
clearances. This is where do-it-yourself is VERY
handy. Husband considers it a training challange.
Horses stay sounder when moving straight, not pulled
sideways. Happy horses are less challenge in other
parts of training.
If your pole is moving A LOT, it may need adjusting or
change. We started with a Warco pair marathon
vehicle.
Springs are flat, broke easily with certain movements.
Got an evaluation of spring metal and changed the
hardness, setting of height for pole to carry itself.
Had several extra sets made for spares. Made the pole
ride steadier, carries yoke weight but still moves
easily. Taught us a lot, fixing this problem.
Springs on used vehicle may be tired, worn, partially
broke?, set for smaller animals. Evaluate what can be
changed. What results do you want? Yoke ends can be
made locally, just attached to pole end. Use quality
metal, EXPENSIVE snap shackle fasteners for quick
release. Quality is more dependable for wear. Make
any rings, loops, large, to prevent binding of harness
or snap shackle removal. Aluminum yoke not
recommended, fractures easily. Pad yoke and pole so
horses are not bruised.
Pole should carry itself easily, sideways pull is
driver problem.
Change harness system, get horses pulling better,
moving straight, not away from pole, leaning, working
together. Drive BOTH horses, not just the eager one.
Move Pokey up, might relax Speedy.
Competition driving is very different than just
cruising down the road. Both are great, but demands
of harness, horses, vehicle are way different. A few
tweaks here and there can make it easier on all.
Driving should be FUN.
Kathy Robertson
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
------------------------------
End of drivingpairs Digest V2 #31
*********************************
_________________________________________________________
To Unsubscribe, change to Digest or Vacation mode go to:
http://www.drivingpairs.com/dpmem.html
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
_________________________________________________________
To Unsubscribe, change to Digest or Vacation mode go to:
http://www.drivingpairs.com/dpmem.html
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Other related posts:
