[Debatewise RRT] Re: debates
- From: "Alex Helling" <alex@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <debatewiserrt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:48:14 +0100
Hi,
It seems that this is a discussion that will run and run!
I am pretty sure I have explained it before, it has not changed since I took
over the RRT about 8 months ago. I give 1 point for each RRT debate someone
creates (with me now creating half of the debates this is no longer really
relevant), but that is the ONLY bit where it matters if the debate is RRT or
not (I may have confused you by saying I ignore revisewise debates - that is
because they do not come up on the main debatewise page. All debates which
you can see on the home page are included in my counting system).
I go through all debates from the end of the previous month (usually a week
or so before the end so that I don't miss late additions)through to the 1st
of the month. I look at the join the debate section to work out who has made
what point and they get 1 point for each point or counterpoint they make.
So pretty simple.
1, I look at all debates made during the month
2, I give a point for each RRT debate created
3, I give a point for each point and counterpoint on ANY debate
4, the only slightly inconsistent bit, I sometimes give points for comments
in the join the debate that are not a point/counterpoint if it is useful and
relevant as it is something that does not happen much. Ideally we would like
several people to give their views on a point and then collaborate in making
the point itself but we are a very long way from this. I don't very often
add points for comments yet as there are not too many comments that are not
part of the point/counterpoint yet.
Problems with my system
1, it does not take in to account changes to old debates
2, it fails to encourage editing of others points - which is something we
really want to encourage.
3, it is too much about quantity of points not quality. (unfortunately as
yet we have no measure of quality - If I did it myself I suspect I would not
be consistent)
I think that previously the DOTM was simply decided by the number of debates
taken, which is not too helpful in determining the usefulness of users
either, as someone may be posting detailed debates while another simply
filling in one or two points.
Now the karma system.
1, gives 10 points for creating a debate on the site
2, gives 1 point (might be 2 not too sure) for creating a point or
counterpoint.
3, gives 1 point for each edit, no matter how small (not sure if it includes
edits to the title/intro).
4, I think it gives a point for voting (again not certain.)
Problems with using it:
1, relies too much on editing and can easily be abused, simply edit one
point over and over! You might have noticed the 'Global Youth Panel' has had
an immense gain in karma from about 500 to almost 3000 in just 2 weeks, that
is because it is broken and is editing one point twice each hour simply
switching things around!
2, In order to include everyone I need to know their karma to start with so
it would be a big task for the first month (hence I am thinking I will only
include it for the posters who are most likely to win - it is not difficult
to find out what your karma is!)
3, it is also based on quantity not quality
4, does not give points for commenting in join the debate.
What would be really good would be if we had something that told us the
number of edits/points or counterpoints started/comments made/debates
started/amount of applause in the last week/month/year then they could be
weighted appropriately with points and creating debates given more weight
than comments/edits but everything included. I guess it will be a long time
before we have an automated counting system more sophisticated than karma or
that breaks down where the karma is coming from.
So at the moment there is no golden solution that I know of.
Quote from 29th September email sent to RRT:
This is my first time totting up the scores so I feel that I should explain
what went into it. Although David did tell me I have already forgotten what
he did to decide. In my case I have basically given 1 mark for starting a
debate for the RRT and 1 mark for each point and counter-point made. This
also applies to adding points and counter points to other people's debates
(whether or not they are ones from our weekly list). This is in an effort to
encourage you to add to each other's debates.
I looked through all the debates (except the WODC ones) written since the
8th of September when the last debater of the month was announced.
Unfortunately U can't give marks for each edit made to existing points as it
does not show who has edited points in the 'join the debate' and it would
take me ages to look through the history of each point. I do not give points
for making debates that are not sent out in the weekly emails, however do
give points for adding points/counter points, in an attempt to reduce the
number of debates that have no points in them. I obviously in my sweep of
debates won't see any editing you do to older debates so if you want them
included in your score email me saying what older debates you have edited.
If you think that the scoring should be done differently feel free to email
me suggestions!
At the time no one replied with other ideas or comments, I am still happy to
take them! (or alterations to the current one system)
Started a debate
http://debatewise.org/debates/2106-should-debater-of-the-month-be-based-on-n
umber-of-points-and-counterpoints (wish I had a catchy name for my system!)
feel free to add any ideas as an against point or email me if you don't want
to add it to the debate. Otherwise the debate is as usual.
Alex
From: debatewiserrt-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:debatewiserrt-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of nadia siddiqi
Sent: 07 July 2010 07:00
To: debatewiserrt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Debatewise RRT] Re: debates
Alex,
Okay, I've been debater of the week for five weeks by the Karma system. And
I only commented on R.R.T debates.I'm very curious about your counting
system. Would you be wonderful enough to make it transparent, whenever you
find the time?
Nadia
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 10:54 AM, nadia siddiqi <nadshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
What about my overall Karma score, I was planning to hit 10,000 and who
counts the karma, if your counting system is different?
Nadia
BBC One and BBC Two lack diversity, imagination and innovation.
Melissa
Sent from my iPhone
On 6 Jul 2010, at 18:53, "Alex Helling" <alex@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
BBC One and BBC Two lack diversity, imagination and innovation.
--
Work done with anxiety about results is far inferior to work done without
such anxiety, in the calm of self-surrender. Seek refuge in the knowledge of
Brahman. They who work selfishly for results are miserable. --"Bhagavad
Gita."
--
Work done with anxiety about results is far inferior to work done without
such anxiety, in the calm of self-surrender. Seek refuge in the knowledge of
Brahman. They who work selfishly for results are miserable. --"Bhagavad
Gita."
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