Bryan wrote: snip, CakeTalking is not able to report separate meters for the left and right channel of a stereo track. Instead, you hear a single meter that represents the summed signal. In most situations, that is what most people care about, since, if you're establishing level for a stereo signal, you rarely, if ever, wish to distort the stereo image by independently adjusting gain on the individual channels. Phil replied: on the other hand, it's nice to be able to calibrate a stereo signal. our sighted counterparts can do that and I think what people are saying here is that they want as much control as possible. Personally I like being able to check the VU metres in Sonar as it gives me a much better average of what's happening on the master bus which is stereo, particularly when mastering. If your going to work professionally as an engineer, you really do need all of the various metre types available. Would be nice if CT offered that but unfortunately, it doesn't. Regards, Phil Muir Accessibility Training Telephone: US (615) 713-2021 UK+44-1747-821-794 Mobile: UK +44-7968-136-246 E-mail: info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> URL: www.accessibilitytraining.co.uk/ <http://www.accessibilitytraining.co.uk/> -----Original Message----- From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Bryan Smart Sent: 21 October 2009 23:14 To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ddots-l] Re: VU meters in DD Maybe I misunderstood what he wants, or maybe you misunderstood. Anyway... If you release the lock and hold, then you have a mostly instantaneous report of the current signal strength. You are right that this isn't the traditional definition of a VU meter, but you are wrong that a VU meter measures "loudness". The difference between the instantaneous report and a traditional VU meter is that a VU meter is designed with a lag to eliminate abrupt changes. Roughly speaking, a VU meter will trend toward the average input over the last 300Ms or so. Sonar's meters don't respond in this way by default, but you can easily make them respond with any curves that you'd like by using the Audio Meter options dialog in the options menu. As to "loudness", the concept of loudness is very vague when we're talking about a recording, since we could be listening to that recording on tiny headphones or a huge PA. The only factors that matter in gauging the level of a recording is its relative strength when compared to another signal of fixed strength, and the dynamic range of the material (difference between the most quiet and most loud parts of the recording). In digital audio, the maximum signal strength is 0DB, so the peak of your recording matters, and you'd use a peak meter for that. However, more important is the dynamic range of the recording. A narrow dynamic range makes the recording seem louder, and you'd measure that with an RMS meter. You can switch between these meter modes in the meter's context menu. CakeTalking is not able to report separate meters for the left and right channel of a stereo track. Instead, you hear a single meter that represents the summed signal. In most situations, that is what most people care about, since, if you're establishing level for a stereo signal, you rarely, if ever, wish to distort the stereo image by independently adjusting gain on the individual channels. Bryan _____ From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Studio Montebello Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 5:17 PM To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ddots-l] Re: VU meters in DD Unlocking the peak meter hold doesn't make a peak meter a VU meter! A peak meter is what it says it measures the peak signal whereas a VU meter measures the loudness, two different things. Jean Visitez mon site / Visit my site at http://www.studiomontebello.com <http://www.studiomontebello.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan Smart <mailto:bryansmart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:34 PM Subject: [ddots-l] Re: VU meters in DD But it can. If you open the meter context menu and deselect hold and lock peeks, then you'll have a continuously fluctuating, and mostly useless, vu meter. Not sure why people want a non-peek meter when it isn't possible for any screen reader to report every value that appears without driving you crazy with non-stop speech, but this method will let you have the experience of trying. Bryan _____ From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Phil Muir Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 2:39 PM To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ddots-l] Re: VU meters in DD No it doesn't. Regards, Phil Muir Accessibility Training Telephone: US (615) 713-2021 UK+44-1747-821-794 Mobile: UK +44-7968-136-246 E-mail: info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> URL: www.accessibilitytraining.co.uk/ <http://www.accessibilitytraining.co.uk/> -----Original Message----- From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett Sent: 21 October 2009 18:37 To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ddots-l] VU meters in DD Previous iterations of Dancing Dots would report peak meters but not the running VU meters. Since Jsonar can do this, does Cake Talking do it now? Chris Bartlett