[dance-tech] Re: shared community

  • From: "Johannes Birringer" <Johannes.Birringer@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <dance-tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 20:15:35 -0000

hi all:

Sarah Jane asked:
Could this list accommodate compact and global laboratories in which 
operational test-beds for advancing new ideas, performance platforms and 
performer-audience spectra's occur and provide conversations in which in-depth 
analysis can begin before, or as, artists publish to live audiences, 
independent blog sites and on the conference circuit? >>

I see no reason why not. It is an ambitous project, but as Marlon, Matt, and 
other point out, it is already happening and the convergence of writing/posting 
and online performance or upload of media and use of hyperllinks must be 
considered part of the evolving social or community networks.  If I said 
anything about my lack of time to visit many blogs, i meant it as simply that, 
a lack of time to read everything, I am not sure that any criticsm of blogs was 
intended.  I did perhaps imply that i often feel the blogs tend to be selective 
in the diaristic and self exposing manner in which they are sometimes 
constructed, and I don;t have a knowledge to know whom they address, who are 
blog buddies or social network partners regularly reading each other's blogs 
and commenting on each other.>>

Could this list actually embrace dance and technology in its very form and 

Could you expand on that a little, Sarah Jane, and tell us more what this would 
look like and involve?   (Are you refering to uploading dance/net pieces or 
video or audiovisual compositions, research experiments or installations?  are 
you refering to telepresence and performing together or using the skype or 
telematic space as a live forum / colloquium space, in what sense are you still 
thinking of dance as physcial form, or are you thinking molecular?)
I agree with Johannes and Marlon, that this forum could benefit from rigorously 
coordinating participant research and active rejuvenation.body, space, time and 
technologies appropriate to each type of enquiry loosely associated with 
dance-tech. I apologise for my lapse in concentration too but I must ask again 
what are the terms of dance-tech engagement really about? Moreover, how could 
the dance-tech list evolve like/ with/ or as the art?

you are asking the right questions, and I may not be able to answer them, as I 
am not working in social networking on the net in the manner in which some or 
many of you might.  I do not have the time to rigorously coordinate or steer 
monthy discussions (as in soft_skinned_space)  or compile a calendar of events 
or systematic postings of idea pieces, papers, announcements, workshops, 
publications, concerts, etc,  but would be happy to contribute or help as i 
sometimes do or have done in the past.

I also wish to point out that this dance-list is a rejuvenated list Mark 
Coniglio and myself set up for the dance-tech community as a public forum 
(maillist) when the older list stopped being active.  There is no moderation on 
this list, in any exclusionary sense whatever, everyone can post who subscribes 
to the list.  the subscription is open, and when it was launched in 2005, in 
conjuntion with the Digital Cultures Lab/festival at Nottingham.
To start with a strictly defined e-list formulae is to embed presumptuous 
limitations onto our discussion...so bring on your samples, 'casts, beams and 
streams I say, and reinvigorate the terms of engagement. >>

If the e-list formula is selective or presumptious, and if most participants in 
the community have stopped caring about a maillist, which is what i understand 
Matt to be saying in his wonderful and most welcome critiqiue, then maybe it 
has served its time and is ready to be let go of.   I said that there was no 
plan to abandon it because members of the communuty of subcribers have used it 
as a bulletin board, and if a good number of subscribers like it that way, then 
it's not appropriate to complain (as I think Matt argues) about its manner of 

Moving outside of the "hive", as Sara Jane proposes, is probably overdue; as 
Matt argues that some of us may be sitting on our sofas waiting for the news to 
come to us rather than actively making it and beaming and streaming it.   

I am certainly interested in the questions, the products, the actions and 
processes at play here and I am keen to have a discussion on what dance-tech 
might mean in 20 years time. For instance, who is choreographing for the 
elderly, the unborn, space-farers and nanobots? What will dance-tech become 
outside of the hive I wonder? And have you seen Holmes comet>>

yes. i sometimes go to the NASA site and others to look at stars. I am not sure 
i have a clue what dance&technology as a field of practitioners will do in 20 
years, and what will happen to the nanobots and their blogs. 

I take it that my call for activity on our forum was a self-criticism.  
I accept Matt's analysis:  "If this is 'the forum' for the
community then something is wrong if they are not making their voices heard."  

If more lively and more visual and active sites/networks are being spawned now, 
i'm happy to support that.  Anyone who wants to moderate debate or resarch 
projects can do so here too, there is no restriction.  (I don;t know the number 
of subscribers to this list, i think it is a few hundred, it was always set up 
to be generative), and the list can be moved to new / active coordinators, why 
not.  Mark and I  don't own anything here, it's not Second Life either.    I  
sense in your posting, Matt, that you think there is something decrepit, 
putrefyingand exclusivist/elitist in this forum.  What are <<the  (political) 
agendas that run as an undercurrent>> ?    

on to the greater levels, then.

johannes birringer

-----Original Message-----
From: dance-tech-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Matt Gough
Sent: Thu 11/8/2007 7:04 PM
To: dance-tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [dance-tech] shared community
hello list,

johannes asked

"exactly what level of debate or idea sharing is evoked here?"

a greater level than is on the list now. as you said yourself:

"Our maillists have become feeble bulletin boards, occasional news
items, announcements, and the dance-tech list also is in such a
strange lull, a silent phase of no debate or exchange of viewpoints

i wonder how useful it is to agree with a perspective (simon's) that
will lead only to feeble bulletin boards and passive participation.
this list is not a 'persistent presence', but a putrefying presence.

"there is no intention whatever on my part to shut the dance-tech list down"

then what is your intention revitalize the list, or are you happy with
the silent status quo as long as it suits your needs?

so far you have not put aside time to suggest a way forward from the
issue you raised. you example of other lists (e.g. empyre or idc) show
that active moderation and instigation of conversations is needed.

[ https://mail.cofa.unsw.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/empyre/ ]
[ https://lists.thing.net/pipermail/idc/ ]

do you have the time for more active participation? or are you willing
to raise people who do have time to moderator status? i look forward
to the 'more soon'

"[...]  help to build this community"
[ //www.freelists.org/archives/dance-tech/10-2005/msg00000.html ]

community is more than one, or a few. if this is 'the forum' for the
community then something is wrong if they are not making their voices
heard. there is also the issue of what happens when they speak
(especially if new) and if they are listened to with understanding.

it is not good enough to dismiss blogs out of hand. there has been
more critical debate on dance-tech issues on blogs in the last month
than there has been in the last year of this list. it is both
sustained and in depth. if you want the news to 'come to you' rss
feeds can be made into digest emails.

 a new site does not have to be technology for technologies sake, nor
should we be neo-luddites.

the suggestion for a social site seems many fold. for one, to have
better visualisation of the dance and performance technologies
community at large. for example, no one (apart from the mods) has any
idea who is on this list or the numbers. it would also be useful to
have a shared (online) calendar where provisional and confirmed dates
for events would be posted.

i'm not keen on social networks myself, but it could be made to work.
and there is a willingness to do so. citing 'spam' is a weak critique,
adverts for showings/workshops without contextual discussion can also
be considered spam.

some people do want and, need to network, so it is a useful
suggestion. the notion of moving the forum/list to such a site is to
keep things central. a new start is wanted due to the perceived lack
of direction and steering. to strip out the (political) agendas that
run as an undercurrent. the notion of  a new list/network 'for the
community, by the community'.

it would be great if the community did take the time to respond, even
if briefly ... even if just:

 'discussion to remain here and a network site',


 'monthly topics would be welcome'

 this is supposed to be a list for the many ...


 matthew gough

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